Facebook senior software engineer interview • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#201

Post by avl999 » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 5:16 PM UTC

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #65

conorh wrote: post #20

Every time I read these posts I find them very depressing. Crunch through an enormous bunch of algorithm problems in order to perform well on some unrealistic whiteboard programming (I think the system engineering problems are actually more useful though) - as usual we've focused on the easy to measure metric rather than anything actually useful. Maybe these things are meant to be a proxy for how good you are at othe…

After 20 years in software, I had a phone interview with an Amazon guy who sounded half my age (at most). Asked me to write some kind of function to do something, sort some stuff or some such. I described verbally how I would do it, almost line by line, in pseudo-code. He said "I need you to write it out in [some language]". I said "But why? I just told you how I'd do it." But he needed me to literally write the code…

While I have sympathy for the idea that some of these interviews can be ridiculous, however it doesn't seem like the interviewer was in the wrong here. As an interviewee you should have known what interview process is like, I worked at Amazon and I know the recruiters brief the candidates on what to expect in the interview, so you should have known going in that you'd be expected to write code, you could have said no right there and then in the email instead of hanging up on the guy.

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#202

Post by vlovich123 » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 5:17 PM UTC

EForEndeavour wrote: post #153

sfashset wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're the one copy pasting code, aren't you the cookie cutter software engineer?

They didn't say they copy-paste code. They pointed out that the algorithm's actual code could very easily be copy-pasted from, e.g., Stack Overflow, without deeply understanding it. By contrast, describing an algorithm in natural language demonstrates actual understanding.

Both are necessary but neither is sufficient. If you have someone who perfectly understands the algorithm but can’t write the code, that’s a different utility than someone who can write code but doesn’t know the optimal algorithm solution. You can say “at work I’d look up a reference” but in an interview setting that’s not helpful where the interviewer needs both. That’s kind of why I really don’t like remote tests. It’s really hard to filter out those trying to cheat. I’ve observed how leetcode stuff tries to track you looking stuff up and it’s theater. Just get a tablet or second laptop (or even use your phone) and the site can’t track if you’re actually looking that up.

I get annoyed with those tests and interviews too, but I’m aware of the challenge on the other side so I take it with a grain of salt and would never let my ego make me arrogant enough to take umbrage at being asked to write down a piece of code. I can understand the frustration, but this process is applied equally along all levels. Hell, the most talented people I worked with were regularly interviewed on coding by people more inexperienced/less talented than them. I would have a hard time any of them expressing anything other than mild annoyance at the system that this is still the best we’ve managed to do and no one would think to say “what right does this young inexperienced person have to ask me questions”. If anything, that attitude would instantly disqualify someone on the “fit” axis of the interview even if they passed on the technical merits.

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#203

Post by blisterpeanuts » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 5:19 PM UTC

EForEndeavour wrote: post #153

sfashset wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're the one copy pasting code, aren't you the cookie cutter software engineer?

They didn't say they copy-paste code. They pointed out that the algorithm's actual code could very easily be copy-pasted from, e.g., Stack Overflow, without deeply understanding it. By contrast, describing an algorithm in natural language demonstrates actual understanding.

Thank you, yes, that was my point. The interviewer gave me a choice of languages, as I recall in fact he said "use a language you're comfortable with" and I thought to myself, what does this prove? I can google the answer and paste it in without him knowing. Whereas, I can explain instantly how I would do it, too fast to have googled it, and he could maybe interactively ask me "what about this condition? how would you check for errors?" etc. The other thing is, he was unwilling to answer any of my questions until we got through this exercise, and I felt he was being rude and somewhat arrogant though I was being quite polite. I'm more than happy to show off my coding skills - I know lots of languages - just wanted to cut to the chase. Maybe I was too impatient. Or, you know, what they say about trusting the first impression is true!

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#204

Post by Philip-J-Fry » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 5:20 PM UTC

LordHumungous wrote: post #176

francisofascii wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I like how it is very objective, measurable, and somewhat specific. If I get fired and suddenly have my days free, I can simply study algorithms and leetcode and get a job elsewhere. It seems easier than worrying about everything else that could be asked during an interview.

I feel the same. It's also much more meritocratic. People from no-name schools and no-name companies study leetcode and get into FAANG all the time. Do people really think it would be better to base it on resume and YOE?

It's not an "either/or" choice...

These companies treat it as though if you can't recite a leetcode answer line for line then you're no good.

A software developer skillset is a lot more varied than reciting 5 leetcode answers for algorithms you won't ever use in production code 99% of the time. And that 1% of the time you do? You're just going to Google the algorithm again anyway.

It's an almost pointless interview exercise.

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#205

Post by dvdbloc » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 5:21 PM UTC

georgeglue1 wrote: post #185

onion2k wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a doctor posted a plan for passing the medical boards would your first thought be "Wow, look at that massive medical monoculture problem!" That seems like a ridiculous stretch in my opinion. It's more like an oncologist posting that every doctor needs to revise cancer treatments for a month before applying for a role in a hospital without realising that other doctors have spent 10 years specialising in different a…

this is off topic, but medical training (at least in the US) is unfortunately about as dysfunctional as you describe. there's are years of inefficient labor from students, residents, fellows, and junior doctors on procedures they'll never do again (because they relatively cheap)

I’m not sure exactly what you’re describing but sounds like they could be getting practical experience? Like a junior dev doing some scripting grunt work that no one else wanted to do but they are gaining other skills along the way possibly?

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#206

Post by Aunche » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 5:22 PM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #115

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't disagree more with your post. The author is basically just putting out a detailed study plan for passing an exam. If a doctor posted a plan for passing the medical boards would your first thought be "Wow, look at that massive medical monoculture problem!" That seems like a ridiculous stretch in my opinion. To your second point, I hear this all the time in threads about tech interviewing: "Tech interviews a…

If a doctor posted a plan for passing the medical boards would your first thought be "Wow, look at that massive medical monoculture problem!" That seems like a ridiculous stretch in my opinion. It's more like an oncologist posting that every doctor needs to revise cancer treatments for a month before applying for a role in a hospital without realising that other doctors have spent 10 years specialising in different a…

I'm sure many people from Facebook switched from the advertising department to the privacy department.

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#207

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 5:22 PM UTC

Kaizeras wrote: post #73

Most of the people I know who did competitive programming in high school spent a just a few evenings preparing for FAANG interviews and still got offers in the end. I have the feeling that all the bitterness towards this interview process comes from people who refuse to do the initial investment of time to learn the foundation for solving coding challenges. Once you go through and understand a few hundred coding chal…

[deleted]

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#208

Post by llimllib » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 5:23 PM UTC

georgeglue1 wrote: post #185

onion2k wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a doctor posted a plan for passing the medical boards would your first thought be "Wow, look at that massive medical monoculture problem!" That seems like a ridiculous stretch in my opinion. It's more like an oncologist posting that every doctor needs to revise cancer treatments for a month before applying for a role in a hospital without realising that other doctors have spent 10 years specialising in different a…

this is off topic, but medical training (at least in the US) is unfortunately about as dysfunctional as you describe. there's are years of inefficient labor from students, residents, fellows, and junior doctors on procedures they'll never do again (because they relatively cheap)

But at least when you're 10 years into your career you aren't judged based on your boards any longer

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#209

Post by avl999 » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 5:23 PM UTC

sj3k wrote: post #145

NeverFade wrote: post #7

Besides the usual advice, this observation is very interesting: > Applying for senior engineering positions (>E4) in FANG companies is one of the best ways to get into them. This comment by a veteran senior engineer confirms to me that Facebook, just like most other FANGs, does a poor job of promoting from within. There are multiple comments to the same effect from many other FANG employees: It's much easier to get r…

I interviewed at FB and Amazon last summer and I asked how long people stay once they are hired. At both companies I was told the average tenure is about 1.5 - 2 years. That was a big yiiiiikes moment for me. People don't stick around long enough to get promoted.

RSUs from your signing bonus vest fully at 2 years (atleast at Amazon). A lot of people bail as soon as that vesting happens.

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#210

Post by nrmitchi » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 5:25 PM UTC

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #6

Facebook stopped being a /cool/ company to work for about 4 years ago. How can they expect to attract the best when they’re so lacking in corporate ethics? Don’t say it’s the almighty dollar because anyone with the chops to make $200k/yr from Facebook could start their own SaaS and make $400k/yr without too much effort. So what’s left to be proud of about working at FB? You don’t even get a private office anymore. Do…

> anyone with the chops to make $200k/yr from Facebook could start their own SaaS and make $400k/yr without too much effort.

I'm sure some can.

But "coding well enough to get a job at Facebook" and "being able to sell something to someone willing to pay for it" are two completely different set of skills.

Some people have both. Most do not.