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UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

rte.ie

201–210 of 251 posts

Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#201
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone wants trade with everyone to their benefit. We also want to be friends and play cricket. Wait wait wait a second ago you said they 'want nothing to do with the UK', now you're saying they want to trade, and play sports? Clearly not 'nothing to do' is it?

We don't want anything to do with them in the context of an EU replacement including open borders or any form of of political or monetary union. The UK is a part of our history and we will always have ties. I don't think there is any will to give them preferential treatment over other trading partners. We are looking out for ourselves and any mistakes the UK makes they are going to have to wear like adults. We are no…

>> We don't want anything to do with them in the context of an EU replacement

>> We are not getting the Empire band back together

CANZUK would have no political union component so how can you maintain the EU and especially the British Empire comparison?

Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#202
post #184
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No longer can I travel [...] Yes you can. (Well, at least after covid-19 is over.)

Don’t selectively quote. I said travel freely. We will need visas if we spend more than 90 days out of 180 in the EU

> We will need visas if we spend more than 90 days out of 180 in the EU

That's been the case since 2014, nothing to do with Brexit.

Before Brexit:

"From 9 June 2014, all British Overseas Territories citizens (BOTCs), British Overseas citizens (BOCs), British Protected Persons (BPPs), and British Subjects (BS) will be allowed to travel visa free to the EU Schengen Area for a maximum of 90 days."

After Brexit:

"If you’re a tourist, you do not need a visa for short trips to most EU countries, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland. You’ll be able to stay for up to 90 days in any 180-day period."

Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#203

I'm amazed at reading British HNers who are presumably mostly rational calling Brexit "evil" and "racist" on this thread. I personally think Brexit is probably an ill-advised move for the UK, but the feelings provoked here by leaving a historically recent trade and cultural union are far, far out of proportion with the deed itself. If anything actually destroys your country, it'll be the exaggerated emotional respons…

Just compare the economic growth per capita of Norway (not in EU) with Sweden (in EU). It's at best an exaggeration that leaving the EU is going to have a significant deleterious impact on the UK.

Norway is in EEA. For most (all?) economic purposes, being in EU, EEA, and Switzerland is equivalent. The same rules, procedures, responsibilities, and privileges apply whether the country is a member of EU or EEA.

Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#204

I'm amazed at reading British HNers who are presumably mostly rational calling Brexit "evil" and "racist" on this thread. I personally think Brexit is probably an ill-advised move for the UK, but the feelings provoked here by leaving a historically recent trade and cultural union are far, far out of proportion with the deed itself. If anything actually destroys your country, it'll be the exaggerated emotional respons…

Just compare the economic growth per capita of Norway (not in EU) with Sweden (in EU). It's at best an exaggeration that leaving the EU is going to have a significant deleterious impact on the UK.

>Just compare the economic growth per capita of Norway (not in EU) with Sweden (in EU). It's at best an exaggeration that leaving the EU is going to have a significant deleterious impact on the UK.

It's not quite an equivalent comparison, though; Norway is essentially a Middle East petrostate relocated to the North Sea.

Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#205
post #18

If they decide to rejoin at some point, perhaps the EU could demand elimination of the pound.

>If they decide to rejoin at some point, perhaps the EU could demand elimination of the pound.

The Guardian speculated in 2013 (http://www.theguardian.com/business/economics-blog/2013/jun/...) that if Britain had joined the Euro the first time:

* The mid-2000s British housing bubble, and its collapse in 2007, would have been even bigger.

* Britain would have had to ask the IMF, ECB, and EU for loans.

* The Tories would in 2010 have promised a referendum to leave the Euro and won a majority. Labour would have won fewer than 100 seats, and UKIP would have "made spectacular gains".

* The anti-Euro side would have won the referendum, and the currency would have collapsed.

* "after a deep and painful recession economic recovery began".

* "Britain would have destroyed the euro on departure, and would now be on the point of leaving the EU altogether. The idea that Farage might be the next prime minister would be quite credible."

Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Euro has done huge damage to the EU project - because of it Greece is stuck in debt, smaller countries can't support their economies in the middle of the pandemic, etc. Even the most ardent europhiles have come around to realise gow problematic it is. The real sovereignty of a country is not in it's armed forces - its the currency. Without control over the press and interest rates, all you can do is tax and spend…

But Greece would never had gotten that credit in drachmen and greek jurisprudence anyway. I dont think that inflation would make much difference to greek economic competitiveness either. It's not like the trajectory changed much since the Euro, the greek goverments only concealed the problems: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_history_of_Greece_and...

While I agree that Greece might have defaulted with drachmas, I still believe grandparent is right: the euro and the mastricht parameters have done immense damage to the EU idea.

Without it we literally wouldn't have a lot of anti-eu sentiment in many countries.

Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#207
post #83
post #9

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People on Hacker News, being in general the knowledge workers and (at least in our minds) the intelligentsia that we are, have particular disdain for democracies doing things they disagree with. I remember the day after Brexit passed my high school friend who was then working on her PhD in international theory asking how the government could revert such a decision. It seemed like the most out of touch ivory tower thi…

>I remember the day after Brexit passed my high school friend who was then working on her PhD in international theory asking how the government could revert such a decision. It seemed like the most out of touch ivory tower thing to say, and made me suspect of what educational institutions are teaching people these days.

It's pretty clear in retrospect that part of what drove the Labour collapse in 2019 (In some Red Wall seats the Tories didn't have to gain a single vote to win) is Remainers who disliked the idea (whether explicit among Lib Dems, or implicit among much of Labour) of ignoring a democratic vote in 2016. That's why another referendum was so unpopular, because no one believes that it would not be rigged against Leave.[1]

People here calling the outcome of the referendum "racist" and "evil" conveniently forget the weeping and wailing that began the night of the referendum. By the next morning we were confidently told by the press and Reddit as a whole that millions of Leave voters were already regretting their vote, and that another referendum was thus the only fair/democratic/correct thing to do. (That even if such millions of Regretters actually existed that does not mean that a revote would occur is a minor technicality.)

People also forget how anger on Leavers' part against delay on Brexit did not become significant until 2019. The Supreme Court agreed that there was reasonable basis for the Miller case, and (more controversially) unexpectedly ruled for her in the second Miller case. But Leavers understandably came to see both lawsuits as part and parcel of an unrelenting attempt on Remainers' part to stop Brexit by any and all means, whether legitimate or not. The fact that Miller actively campaigned for revoking Article 50 didn't help the Remain cause, and discredited her claim during the first case that she wanted to protect parliamentary sovereignty.

Those who in other circumstances might have supported a "People's Vote" didn't, because they saw it as yet another attempt to delay and prevent Brexit via Neverendums. I think Leave would have won another referendum conducted under the circumstances of the first one, but Leavers understandably didn't trust the People's Vote folks to implement another referendum in any way that Leave can again win. Not after 3.5 years and counting of shenanigans such as the Miller case.

[1] Even supporters of same, no matter what they said. That's why they were for it.

Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#208
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty (8 of 27) of EU countries don't use the Euro. Denmark, Sweden, Norway for example.

I think Denmark is the only country that opts out of the Euro, the rest are on track of getting it. Although it doesn’t look like Sweden and Poland are in any rush though.

They aren't, Hungary was on the track to join the euro a decade ago, but then just decided it won't, there are no plans to do it at all.

Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#209
post #23

This could be very bad or it could be very good. The chains of EU centralized bureaucracy are off, now the UK can chart their own destiny (hopefully for the better).

The chains are still on because the UK still needs to trade with said bureaucracy, and of course the fault of that lies with the EU's bureaucratic nature itself instead of the UK's decision to exit. Ultimately we should want the EU to be eliminated entirely and replaced with a multilateral free trade treaty, and UK's exit is a very productive step in that direction.

How does that multilateral free trade treaty works?

You'd still need the same bureaucracy compiling the norms, except instead of doing it once for 27 countries you'd do it 27 times.

See how long it took to create other agreements like the EU/Japan, EU/Canada and failed EU/US.

Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#210
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t selectively quote. I said travel freely. We will need visas if we spend more than 90 days out of 180 in the EU

> We will need visas if we spend more than 90 days out of 180 in the EU That's been the case since 2014, nothing to do with Brexit. Before Brexit: "From 9 June 2014, all British Overseas Territories citizens (BOTCs), British Overseas citizens (BOCs), British Protected Persons (BPPs), and British Subjects (BS) will be allowed to travel visa free to the EU Schengen Area for a maximum of 90 days." After Brexit: "If you’…

All the passport categories you quoted (BOTC, BOC, BPP, BS) relate to former colonies (think the status given to inhabitants of Hong Kong after it was turned over to China).

UK citizens could move around the EU freely.

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