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No Cookie for You

github.blog

201–210 of 634 posts

Re: No Cookie for You

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or blanket non-consent of course. I too find it quite annoying. The other issue is that sometimes the banners do not properly work with various aids for disability and keyboard-operated browsers.

There is the "Do not track" option, but as I understand it's ignored by most websites. That's why I wouldn't mind a "Do what ever you want" option, and in exchange popups are removed. That's how it was before and I'm not certain that it caused that much harm. Users can always block ads and third-party cookies anyway if they wish to do so.

If the E.U. can require such popups, it can certainly required that this “do not track” options be honored.

Re: No Cookie for You

#202

I hate the standard wording on Cookie banners. Most of them should read: "The site uses cookies. Actually it doesn't - you are not logged on and we don't need to maintain state. But our advertising partners, their partners, and their partner's partners all love to set tracking cookies. Click here to consent to three dozen cookies from around the globe."

You sound like the guy who wrote this:

"We're not going to lie to you. Your privacy isn't our priority. It's not even close. Not because we want to track your every move. But because we simply don't care. We'd rather spend what limited time we have actually improving the web site. We're into taking pictures and adding content, not obsessing over what your dog had for lunch so we can sell it to MegaEnormousBigCo. We're not tracking you. We're not tabulating you. We're not folding, spindling, or mutilating you. Seriously, your personal life is not important to us. However, you may or may not be of interest to the people who advertise on this web site."

https://www.chicagoarchitecture.info/privacy.php

Re: No Cookie for You

#203
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, it only applies in the EU. You don't need to display any banners outside the EU. Not that I am pro-privacy invasion, I'm not, but I'm definitely anti-annoying-popups.

No, it applies to every resident in EU and EU citizens all over the world. Edit: https://gdpr-info.eu/art-3-gdpr/ ("where Member State law applies" and "subjects who are in the Union" [...] "regardless of whether the processing takes place in the Union or not" respectively) Edit 2: https://gdpr.eu/companies-outside-of-europe/ for more info: "The whole point of the GDPR is to protect data belonging to EU citizens and…

The cookie banner is NOT regulated by the GDPR.

It's related to the ePrivacy Directive, which is deeply intertwined with GDPR but a separate piece of legislation. It's not clear whether the GDPR's territorial applicability also holds for ePD. France in particular is drawing a divide between GDPR and ePD, because ePD lets them fine Google directly but GDPR require they mediate through the Irish DPA.

Re: No Cookie for You

#204
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is (mostly) based on EU law; entities that set cookies and track user data are required to get opt-in permission from users before doing so, and if the user declines, the entity cannot offer a degraded service. At least that's the idea. In practice, almost everyone just throws up a banner that says "fuck you, we're selling your data as hard and as fast as we can," with no opt-out available, but they pretend that…

> the entity cannot offer a degraded service Does this mean that sites that offer free but ad-supported content still have to offer that content? So I can watch those free Youtube movies and listen to those Spotify tracks ad-free because EU Law says fuck you . How is this fair? Edit: Okay, okay, non-targeted (and no 3rd party) ads are okay, got it xD

No, it just means those ad-supported sites cannot use cookies to spy on you in the name of personalized ads. They are still free to display "generic" ads including content-related ads. Same as old school TV, radio and print ads really, which couldn't track me either but sustained those broadcasting companies and publishers well enough.

Re: No Cookie for You

#205
post #63
post #49

I'm sure people will praise this, but how do you run a modern website with no analytics? How do you know if people use the features you build?

I’m sure that GitHub certainly has analytics; they just don’t use third-party analytics. This means that either they’ve built their own tool or are self hosting someone else’s. I imagine that GitHub has some amount of internal tooling here out of necessity, e.g for metrics about how people use GitHub over SSH.

However they cannot use data that allows to identify an user (such as an IP address) in their analytics, unless the user has granted them explicit consent to use that data for the purpose of analytics.

So my understanding is that there is a big difference between this and "they just don't use third-party analytics".

It would be super nice if they clarified this in the blog post. Maybe by adding something like "We do not use personal data in our analytics".

Re: No Cookie for You

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably like we do it for pirsch.io, by calculating a hashed fingerprint and throwing away the individual page hits once per day: https://github.com/pirsch-analytics/pirsch

Seems like a good method and actually more accurate than they do... seems like they just do a hash of IP.

Hmm I think I've read something about it elsewhere and they also use more parameters than just the IP. Not sure.

Re: No Cookie for You

#207
post #58
post #3

A lot of people have the misconception that the EU cookie law applies to all cookies, but as the blog post correctly points out, that just isn't the case.

Right but it still seems like this could violate the GDPR, right? They say: >>So, we have removed all non-essential cookies from GitHub, and visiting our website does not send any information to third-party analytics services. But you’re still only allowed to use the cookies for the purpose the user gave you them for , right? So, if: a) the cookies are essential for the user session, and b) you collect the cookies, w…

I just checked my cookies on the Github website and had several tracking cookies (including Google Analytics).

Then I realized I should probably clear all the cookies for Github, and start over with a fresh session. So I deleted all cookies that Github had given me (which was 12) and refreshed the page. As expected, I was now logged out and Github immediately issued you me 4 new cookies.

  • _gh_sess (a fresh session cookie)

  • _octo (not sure what this is, might have something to do with cache-busting? Looks like it contains something resembling a version id/string)

  • logged_in (my logged in status, now false)

  • tz (my timezone)
All of these are valid cookies (assuming that _octo is for cache busting) that would not require a cookie banner.

So then I logged in. I now have 10 cookies. None of them appear to be tracking cookies.

  • __Host-user_session_same_site (14 day session token)

  • device_id (this contains a random string to differentiate this device. Initially I was concerned with this, thinking it might be a fingerprint. But it is far too short for that, and it appears to be a flash cookie. It expires as soon as it is issued, so it only lasts one request. This is likely used to improve your experience in the case that you are logged in across multiple devices to differentiate which device is making a request within the current session)

  • gh_sess (same as before, session)

  • _octo (same as before, presumably cache-busting)

  • dotcom_user (contains a string with my github username)

  • has_recent_activity (boolean value, likely used to display "unseen notifications" on the front-end)

  • logged_in (same as before, except now true)

  • tz (same as before, timezone for frontend time displays)

  • tz (now have 2 timezone cookies. Both are currently the same timezone, although I assume the first one is a timezone gathered from my system clock and the new one is a timezone gathered from my github settings which they now have since I logged in. This is probably a bug where they expect to overwrite the first one, but since one is set to the github.com domain and the other is set to all github subdomains then it didn't overwrite)

  • user_session (yet another session token with 14 day expiration. However the session token in this cookie and the __Host-user_session_same_site cookie are the same. Not sure reason for the duplication)
So those are all the cookies that Github now gives you. 2 of these seem to have duplicates. Meaning the same could be done with 8 cookies instead of 10. But regardless, all cookies seem to check out. None of these are tracking your usage and are there to improve your logged in experience. Tracking things like your username and recent activity boolean are most likely being used to save making the same database queries for every request. The others are just tracking sessions, which is something that users definitely do want. The 14 day expiration is a good middle ground between convenience and security.

At the beginning I mentioned that I had two tracking cookies before I cleared my cookies. These are gone after the refresh. So it looks like github has in fact stopped issuing tracking cookies altogether. They also seem to have removed Google Analytics entirely as I don't see the script on their website at all.

So all-in-all this definitely checks out. I don't see any GDPR violations here or reason to display a cookie banner anymore.

I assume they still have analytics, but the analytics are all happening server-side which provides them basics like pageviews and visitors. And since you have to be logged in to do almost anything in github they don't need cookies to track what you do while logged in, thats all going through their servers and databases anyway.

I know plenty of people here have problems with Github, but I think it is exciting to see a large company like Github (Microsoft) take this step.

Re: No Cookie for You

#208
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is (mostly) based on EU law; entities that set cookies and track user data are required to get opt-in permission from users before doing so, and if the user declines, the entity cannot offer a degraded service. At least that's the idea. In practice, almost everyone just throws up a banner that says "fuck you, we're selling your data as hard and as fast as we can," with no opt-out available, but they pretend that…

> the entity cannot offer a degraded service Does this mean that sites that offer free but ad-supported content still have to offer that content? So I can watch those free Youtube movies and listen to those Spotify tracks ad-free because EU Law says fuck you . How is this fair? Edit: Okay, okay, non-targeted (and no 3rd party) ads are okay, got it xD

Billboards, newsletter ads, flyers etc won't track whether you look at them as well, and last time I checked print advertisement still kinda sold.

Tracking is not necessary to show ads. Certainly there are business models which depend on this, but hey who says our society benefits from those? Targeted advertisement and free informed democracies don't mix well IMO.

Re: No Cookie for You

#209

I hate the standard wording on Cookie banners. Most of them should read: "The site uses cookies. Actually it doesn't - you are not logged on and we don't need to maintain state. But our advertising partners, their partners, and their partner's partners all love to set tracking cookies. Click here to consent to three dozen cookies from around the globe."

Good lord, everyone needs banners and popups? Why not just let browsers controls who sets what cookies? I'm tired the endless cookie popups, can we come up with an "allow cookies if the browser accepts them" standard as long as that guarantees no cookie popups? Then browser vendors can ship a delete all non same origin cookies on tab close or something.

Not all cookies are born equal.

I would like to store a cookie or a client-side cert to remain logged in, but not the other cr. Granted, they could use that cookie to track me, but this is what GDPR is about.

IIRC, Internet explorer used to ask you for each cookie, circa 2000. These pop-ups became more and more common with time. The web would be unusable with those nowadays.

Re: No Cookie for You

#210
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, this is a case of “tech company thinks they found a clever GDPR hack, but didn’t and is still breaking the law”?

If we're talking about Github, no, I don't think it's a clever hack. I think they've actually ripped out the offending usages. The reason I find that believable is that their core business is selling a git server with bells and whistles. From Microsoft's perspective, Github doesn't need to be doing any marketing because they kind of are the marketing.

Whether they complied in other ways is irrelevant to whether this case is non-compliant, and the point was about reuse of cookies for analytics, not marketing.
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