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EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

statewatch.org

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Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#201

Post by auganov »

botto wrote: post #86

Ultimately the problem with any idea like this is that encryption is as basic as mathematics and trying to ban it will only harm everyday people and the dumb criminal. The criminals that want to stay hidden will continue to do so because you will always find open source projects that provides encryption.

It wouldn't be an encryption ban, but a ban on operating a platform that enables E2EE messaging.

Similarly in most places you already cannot be an ISP or VPN provider without following some reporting requirements. And there's no simple way for criminals to get mainstream quality networking services that don't follow regulations.

I don't agree with the ban, but I do think it would certainly hurt many classes criminals. I'd say it's generally a pretty bad strategy to oppose such policies by denying the supposed effect on criminals. All kinds of freedoms benefit some criminals.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#202

Post by feanaro »

boccko wrote: post #184
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It pretty much is, section 12 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states: > No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks. I mean wearing my programmer goggles it doesn't state privacy AND correspondence but OR, but sti…

When they have a court warrant, it's not arbitrary. I think some rights were given to the people to combat government tyranny (right to bear arms for example), but combating government tyranny is just not feasible anymore, due to a set of factors, like our inability to organize behind a common cause. Anyway, the choice here is reserving our ability to overthrow an unjust system, or giving the government the rights to…

Sorry, but this is nonsense. Possessing cryptography does not imply the boogeyman will, as a consequence, gain the ability to overthrow the system. On the other hand, there's very concrete evidence governments are the boogeymen.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#204

Post by input_sh »

dylan604 wrote: post #156
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like TSA luggage keys.... there's no way those would leak online, and no way anybody would be able to download them from https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1687424 and 3d-print them... no way something like that'd happen!

Luckily, you can't 3D print an encryption key that would be useful in any way. Although, now I wish the guy from Lavabits had handed in his SSL cert as 3D printed letters and numbers like a puzzle.

You can tattoo an encrypyion algorithm. Someone did that a long time ago with RSA: http://www.geekytattoos.com/illegal-tattoos-rsa-tattoos/

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#205

Post by sharken »

ben_w wrote: post #53
sharken wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pandemic has allowed for European governments to introduce much of the same control as seen in China and North Korea. So it’s really not a surprise that the idea of banning encryption is on the table. So encryption as a basic human right sounds like the way to fight this.

A friend of mine here in Berlin is from Hong Kong. Thanks to the Pro-Democracy protests in Hong Kong, the general nature of which my friend confirmed, I know about how to use traffic cones to defend against tear gas. I’ve personally witnessed “we don’t like how Corona is being handled” marches here in Berlin. The difference is massive.

That’s a great point, thankfully Europe is more humane than China in dealing with riots.

The concern for how Corona is handled in Europe, is that the temporary measures for dealing with Corona become permanent.

In Denmark these temporary measures are supposed to expire in March 2021, but it’s anyone’s guess if that arrangement is honored by the government.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#206

Post by learnstats2 »

Kim_Bruning wrote: post #141

This is the reminder to call your MEP and tell them what a bad idea this is! The few times I've called, they do have people who pick up the phone and listen to you. It's actually quite cool. Have your story ready, and remember to be polite. (If only because a lot of MEPs really do deserve our respect.) https://www.europarl.europa.eu/meps/en/home

The EU Parliament, which votes on proposals but does not write them, defended the right of encryption prior to the most recent election, and it was news that it hoped to enshrine end-to-end encryption as a Fundamental Right of the European Union.

e.g. https://www.cnet.com/news/encryption-and-fighting-terror-hav...

This might change, but there is hope that they will continue with this position.

Since you're likely to have multiple MEP representatives from different parliamentary groups (and different national parties), it's worth getting in touch with each of your representatives by party to make your point clear. Some groups and parties will be more sympathetic than others but all will benefit from hearing this - and phone is more compelling than e-mail.

(I'm still trying to find a previous similar vote that might be enlightening on what you can expect.)

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#207

Post by contravariant »

cblconfederate wrote: post #181
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It pretty much is, section 12 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states: > No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks. I mean wearing my programmer goggles it doesn't state privacy AND correspondence but OR, but sti…

If only the Declaration was legally binding...

Well, the ECHR is (for all EU members), and has a similar clause:

> Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence.

unfortunately it also has exemptions for anything a government could reasonably use as justification to restrict this right:

> There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#208

Post by notjes »

Daniel_sk wrote: post #8

I don't have a nice name for people in EU parliament that write these things, they don't really understand what encryption is. It's not a technology. You can't ban encryption. Terrorists can just use unencrypted chat and either use their own encryption or they can use predefined words and sentences that actually have a totally different meaning.

It is for your own good.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#210

Post by dalu »

euthrow439 wrote: post #106
Toutouxc wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think he's talking about the guy who mugs him. More like about the guy who mows down a crowd with an automatic weapon, the guy who drives a truck through the center of a Christmas market or the guy who blows up a metro station. That kind of people.

Well, no, you're wrong. The terrorists are horrible, of course, but they don't really cause that much of a risk to the everyday person. In my country there's a rapidly growing organized crime scene built around the distribution of narcotics. They are organizing themselves via these apps using burner phones. They are exploding bombs in multi-home buildings to scare/take out the competition on a weekly basis. And its a…

Really, what country would that be? I call BS. And when ever I read "military grade encryption" I'm thinking buzzwords. Don't make yourself sound more important than you actually are.
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