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Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

helsinkibusinesshub.fi

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Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#201

Post by princeb »

paxys wrote: post #173
eru wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can have lower taxes (than in America) and excellent public services in Singapore. Eat your cake and have it, too. Very startup friendly as well and excellent food. The tropical weather takes a bit of getting used to, though. I much prefer gloomy European skies.

And what if I want to smoke a joint or chew gum?

seriously don't come!

the locals who really want to do those things have long moved out of the country. those who choose to remain here enthusiastically enforce the order of the country. caning and hanging continue to enjoy popular support.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#202

Post by pkaye »

PopeDotNinja wrote: post #114
jjav wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Still worth it for 'free' education and 'free' healthcare? No brainer, absolutely worth it. Even making good money in Silicon Valley I'm perpetually afraid of medical bankruptcy if something were to happen. And the cost of education here takes another 15% off my salary for schools far lower quality than in Finland.

I had a six figure income in San Francisco & insurance, and still ended up medically bankrupt. Bike accident, head trauma, unable to work, work tied to job... employer sponsored healthcare sucks if your ability to work is compromised.

Your employer didn't provide short/long term disability insurance?

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#203

Post by kaitai »

zeckalpha wrote: post #104
howlgarnish wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What they don't mention is the length of those seasons, which in Finland consist of winter, winter, winter and construction. Even in Helsinki snow can fall as early as September and as late as May.

Here in Minnesota, I’ve seen snow every month except August. We had 10 inches two weeks ago. On the other hand, it was 87 degrees on my porch yesterday.

Yeah, howlgarnish's comment had me chuckling too... shoveled a lot a couple weeks ago...

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#204

Post by rendall »

sudhirj wrote: post #172
mensetmanusman wrote: post #28

‘ We’re not after your money but all about lasting relationships. ‘ Sounds legit

Might not be. The Nordic states seem rich enough already. Norway, for example, has a fund that makes all its citizens millionaires, so you do get richer if you join them. Can’t speak for Finland, but because it’s a welfare state you are going to get more than you give, at least until you start making serious money. I think they realise that immigration helps counter stagnation, especially if their population is aging…

Not millionaires

"In May 2018, it was worth about $195,000 per Norwegian citizen"

... and individuals don't have access to the money directly

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Pension_Fund_of_Nor...

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#205

Post by kaitai »

brobinson wrote: post #102
nstj wrote: post #17

> Experience four seasons: changes in weather and daylight are a feature and not a bug This looks like a wonderful offering. With phrases like the above it looks to be one of the first of its nature where government _gets_ the needs of remote tech workers.

I've heard from Finns that summer is the "nicest week of the year" so I'm gonna take the four seasons claim with a grain of salt.

Oh, but berry season lasts weeks and is wonderful. Berry season is to me truly the highlight of Finnish nature.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#206

Post by martinald »

kaitai wrote: post #188
spicyramen wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree, as a Bay Area SWE, health-care is not a problem as many companies give you very good insurance, HSA, dental and vision for free or with family (wife + 1 kid) 1K per month.

1K per month = not a problem! hahahahaha! Ok, for a (male or lesbian, since you specify 'wife') Bay Area SWE, you're right. But do look at that election map and notice the scores of people living in the rest of the US, in large part voting against their own health-care interests but still. In Missouri the median income is around $55k. Putting $12k of that into health insurance (not health care, but insurance) is pret…

You do realise that $55k even with $12k insurance taken off ($43k "effective' median) is higher than any EU state, apart from maybe Luxembourg. And taxes will be significantly higher in EU states than MI (even if you are paying healthcare privately), which will further tilt it?

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#207

Post by disabled »

Devils-Avocado wrote: post #27
brryant wrote: post #2

This is honestly a great way for tech entrepreneurs to experience Nordic living. The fact is Finland has one of the most startup friendly environments around: — top schools (Aalto U. produces incredibly talented engineers) — startup friendly ecosystem (cheap rents, cheap internet) — Finnish work culture (direct, no nonsense, hard working but balanced) — fantastic food and beverage scene in downtown Helsinki My wife i…

Also: 24% VAT (sales tax) 18% employer payroll taxes 10% employee payroll taxes 20-30% typical income tax Take your American disposable income and cut it in half. Still worth it for 'free' education and 'free' healthcare? Also a lot of cold and darkness.

> Still worth it for 'free' education and 'free' healthcare?

Yes. The taxes are worth it, for a stable society.

This US 2020 election:

An Associated Press analysis reveals that in 376 counties with the highest number of new cases per capita, the overwhelming majority — 93% of those counties — went for Trump, a rate above other less severely hit areas.: https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-nw-coronavirus...

2016 US election (there are multiple studies on it but there was one from Boston University public health that was the most revealing): Study: Communities Most Affected By Opioid Epidemic Also Voted For Trump: https://www.npr.org/2016/12/17/505965420/study-communities-m...

I am a dual US|Croatian (European Union) citizen. I happily pay Croatian taxes, just for the stability. I don’t have to worry about amassing a huge amount of savings for retirement as an EU citizen and I can work/live/retire in 30+ countries. (By the way, if you save for retirement, in the millions range, it may not pay for your cancer or rare disease treatment, even if covered by insurance, due to Medicare Part D catastrophic coverage level. I know this because my out-of-pocket responsibility for my blood product costs $50,000+/year under Medicare Part D, under catastrophic coverage level. 7% of the general population has some sort of a rare disease and obviously cancer is a common diagnosis)

> Also a lot of cold and darkness.

Well, I’m from Seattle and I have to say, you eventually get used to the dreariness, cold, and darkness.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#209

Post by nonfinn1039 »

socialdemocrat wrote: post #40
Devils-Avocado wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also: 24% VAT (sales tax) 18% employer payroll taxes 10% employee payroll taxes 20-30% typical income tax Take your American disposable income and cut it in half. Still worth it for 'free' education and 'free' healthcare? Also a lot of cold and darkness.

It is not like taxes disappear into a black hole never to be seen. Most of that money comes back to you in the form of services Americans would have to pay for anyway. What matters is what the taxes give you. A lot of American taxes don’t give people much of anything. Maintaining the worlds largest prison population is expensive but what exactly does that give the Average American? Worlds largest military also sucks…

I keep hearing this myth about that US taxpayer dollars go mostly to the military. Sure it's a big ticket item, but half of it goes to social programs: 2019 (USD):

- Health and Human Services: 1,215 Trillion(27%)

- Social Security: 1,101 Trillion (25%)

- Department of Defense: 658 Billion (14.7%)

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#210

Post by timsally »

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #106
siavosh wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish humanity didn't need a military but saying the world's largest military doesn't give anything back is a bit misleading. Some would argue the world's largest military enable the post WW2 order and with it the free trade that most of the world depends on. So in a very concrete way, the American tax payer subsidizes much of the world's economy. Now in a post cold war with the growing isolationist tendencies of Am…

I think the point is that you can choose to go live somewhere that is not the USA and you continue reap the benefits you describe, all the while paying a different countries taxes and personally benefitting much much more. If I was an American, I wouldn't want to be footing the bill for Global Security either.

> If I was an American, I wouldn't want to be footing the bill for Global Security either.

There is a deep and nuanced conversation to be had here, though I will say fourstar already made one important point very succinctly. [1]

I will point out that it has been the position of the American people since WWII that we are happy to foot the bill for global security. So while you might not feel that way, Americans feel differently. I'll give a bit of background on how that came to be.

While Hitler was cutting through Europe there was a extensive internal debate in the US whether just focusing on defending the Pacific would be sufficient. During the time leading up the Battle of Britain, we decided the US view of security needed to be global-- if Hitler overran Britain the threat was just too large. It would turn out that the Brits won one of the most significant military victories in history [2], but prior that fact emerging American policy had come to the firm conclusion that we had to defend east as well as west. The Brits handled it, but it was tough to know that at the time.

Since WWII we have not really reevaluated this policy. Some in the US believe it is time to do so and the current election will decide much of this. But in the last 10 years we have witnessed the biggest land grab in Europe since World War II [3], so now might not be the time to dissolve the world order.

This may be more detail than you were expecting, but I hope you found it interesting. The world is a much more fragile place that I wish and at the end of the day we all need to chip in for global security.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25004863

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Britain#Aftermath

[3] https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2020/03/17/c...

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