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Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

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Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#201

Post by [deleted] »

mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #186
koheripbal wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I applaud your ability to keep politics out of work. We created a hard rule at our company in 2016: No politics / No religion. Most humans are incapable of discussing these topics rationally, and it only serves to increase division at work. One person could not handle the idea of not being politically active at work, and we discovered after she quit that almost everyone was happier no having her toxic commentary omni…

Your comment belies pretty repressive, judgmental, arrogant and close-minded attributes on your part. This attitude reminds me of the military’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” repression policy against gay service members. People should feel they don’t have to unnaturally switch off core important parts of their identity at work. They need to have psychological safety to outwardly “be themselves” - without burden to exert e…

[deleted]

Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#202

Post by sgift »

aaronax wrote: post #154
dnsld wrote: post #12

we're posting Cato Institute links now?

Let me guess, they don't align with "strong liberal" views so any controversial part of their past makes them cancel-able ("ban" as you say). I now feel like I will hesitate to submit a Cato article in the future, and I don't even know what is wrong with them! Basically exactly what the article discusses.

There are a ton of information available about the Cato institute online. If you "don't even know what is wrong with them", don't want to post about them and don't want to inform yourself that's on you.

Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#203

Post by EForEndeavour »

koheripbal wrote: post #151
chromatin wrote: post #78

I would absolutely be denied opportunities for projects, publicity, promotion, and advancement in my field if I were known to have political views that deviated from the norm in my industry, which I will state for the record is hard left. Consequently, I express no personal non-work related opinions not only at work but in fact not even with “friendlies,” as loose lips sink ships. It is a shitty way to live, given ho…

I applaud your ability to keep politics out of work. We created a hard rule at our company in 2016: No politics / No religion. Most humans are incapable of discussing these topics rationally, and it only serves to increase division at work. One person could not handle the idea of not being politically active at work, and we discovered after she quit that almost everyone was happier no having her toxic commentary omni…

How would your company have dealt with a "Trump/Pence 2016" laptop sticker?

What about a request to get time off to vote?

What if someone came to HR and said they felt they were being treated differently by their boss because they posted a news article that mentioned politics and religion in the team's Slack channel, and they think their boss considered that a sneaky attempt to circumvent your strict "no politics / no religion" rule?

Politics are inextricable from most plausible modern workplaces. I'm all for asking employees to try to avoid bringing it up if they can help it, but a "no politics / no religion" rule doesn't guarantee a reduction in "litigation, security issues, and horrible employee productivity."

Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#204

Post by legulere »

tom-_- wrote: post #150
ethanbond wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But... there are actually people who believe that those with a certain skin color or of a certain sexual orientation or religion actually should not have basic rights. Not everyone who gets targeted as such holds those beliefs, sure, but they absolutely do exist in America. Until fairly recently, those people’s beliefs actually drove real policies in America that had real teeth and caused real suffering for real peop…

"Basic rights" is a subjective term and they're often in conflict with each other. Pro-choice vs pro-life being the classic example. If you believe freedom of speech is a basic right, then you should also believe in protecting the right of bigots to spread diatribe.

It often is, but sometimes those rights are only imagined rights. Does a right extremist have a right to have his race free from other races?

You say yourself that rights are sometimes at conflict with each other. That requires that sometimes rights are restricted to a point that other rights are not infringed. For instance we lock up dangerous people. Why do you think is freedom of speech is some kind of super-right that triumphs over every other right? Is freedom of speech more important even when it’s used to incite genocide?

Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#205

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #186
koheripbal wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I applaud your ability to keep politics out of work. We created a hard rule at our company in 2016: No politics / No religion. Most humans are incapable of discussing these topics rationally, and it only serves to increase division at work. One person could not handle the idea of not being politically active at work, and we discovered after she quit that almost everyone was happier no having her toxic commentary omni…

Your comment belies pretty repressive, judgmental, arrogant and close-minded attributes on your part. This attitude reminds me of the military’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” repression policy against gay service members. People should feel they don’t have to unnaturally switch off core important parts of their identity at work. They need to have psychological safety to outwardly “be themselves” - without burden to exert e…

You've been around here long enough to know that personal attacks aren't permitted on HN.

Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#206

Post by pas »

tupputuppu wrote: post #191
atoav wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am quite convinced Popper would have disagreed that the line doesn't needs to be drawn (in some cases) before violence — at least this is what I learned about him when I studied philosophy in Vienna, the city where he grew up in. Popper e.g. also says that the goal of elections is to have a transfer of power without having to have civil wars, guillotines and other violent means. This means to prevent violence we ha…

Popper's idea was that people need to be free to discuss and debate different perspectives. When most people don't feel free to voice their opinions I think it's safe to say the culture and institutions we have don't support that goal.

There's a difference between "not allowing racists/bigots to shout whatever insult they happen to come up with", and "banning research into biological underpinnings of cognition, intelligence, etc".

Most people are not scholars, at best pundits, but even if they are, most of their thoughts are still not careful and nuanced constructive arguments.

And maybe, just maybe, putting some brakes on the global cyber hate wave machines, where anyone can share/amplify the most damaging shit with one click is not a bad idea.

That said, partisanship bias, fairness, justice are all related problems when it comes to how to apply those brakes.

And yes, the institutions are shit, both old and new. Academia, FB/Tw, MSM, parties/congress, religions. But they are not without advantages, not unsalvageable.

Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#207

Post by matz1 »

metalliqaz wrote: post #187
matz1 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A person may die but ideas lives on.

not if they keep it to themselves also, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck%27s_principle

The successive generation can also be the silent supporter or they can be the braver/smarter supporter who aren't afraid to voice their view.

Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#208

Post by pas »

brigandish wrote: post #132
atoav wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Do we have to show tolerance to the intolerant?" is not the newest question in the book, and historians will probably tell you that in fact free societies stay free if they draw a clear line what is unaccepted behaviour. Liberty is always a balance act, because if you give bad actors freedom in the name of tolerance they will use it to reduce the freedom of weaker actors within society. If you live in a "survival of…

> "Do we have to show tolerance to the intolerant?" is not the newest question in the book Lately it seems to be the most misrepresented part of Popper's "paradox of intolerance", where he defines intolerance as those who resort to violence instead of speech, and the would be censors of this age who bring up the paradox - without seeming to have read it - tell us that the intolerant are those we disagree with. "we" b…

That line very much gets fuzzy if you look at it over time as law constantly changes.

Call for immediate violence is treated very much like violence in a lot of jurisdictions.

Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#209

Post by pas »

koheripbal wrote: post #171
fareesh wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A high profile executive working for a corporation in Iran will be fired and possibly arrested if they start talking about the government's stance on women's rights. Likewise in the USA if some executive talks about babies' rights they'll probably be fired and some smear campaign will be launched against them. Likewise in China vocal criticism of the CCP will probably lead to bad consequences. I would encourage Ameri…

I agree. At the end of the day, who are we protecting when we silence hate speech? Are we suggesting that we ourselves cannot handle hearing and rejecting the speech, or are we suggesting that other adults should not even hear hate speech because they might be influenced? Either of those is a profound infantilization of the public. I am capable of hearing hate speech and rejecting it. I trust most other mature adults…

Umm, have you seen the public recently?

If you don't need protection, great! But hate speech emboldens bigots. It has a chilling effect.

Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#210

Post by mlthoughts2018 »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #205
mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment belies pretty repressive, judgmental, arrogant and close-minded attributes on your part. This attitude reminds me of the military’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” repression policy against gay service members. People should feel they don’t have to unnaturally switch off core important parts of their identity at work. They need to have psychological safety to outwardly “be themselves” - without burden to exert e…

You've been around here long enough to know that personal attacks aren't permitted on HN.

That’s why it was critical to respond. The comment I responded to is overtly and unequivocally expressing arrogant repression (“no politics” and “no religion” discussed at work because “most people” can’t rationally talk about it).

If you think my comment is a personal attack, that’s wildly unreasonable. The parent comment is the one behaving that way and it is absolutely fair and uncontroversial to point out their own words demonstrating thuggish repression.

In fact, not challenging their comment on these reprehensible points would be the far worse action.

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