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Researchers discover new salivary glands in the human head

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Re: Researchers discover new salivary glands in the human head

#201

Post by hilbert42 »

dumbfoundded wrote: post #195
LocalH wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it be troubling that there is more to learn? There is always more to learn. If you were under the misconception that we knew everything about the human body, then I’m glad you’re now enlightened

It's about expectations. We obviously will never know everything about anything. Some things seem easier to discover than others. This seems like something easy to discover that has long since gone undiscovered.

In this case it's a little like finding someone's house in a town you've never been in before. You expect the town's map to be accurate and to have all relevant streets listed - not having some of them missing.

This report suggests that we do have 'streets' missing. Researchers are now delving into finely nuanced areas of research at a level the equivalent of the house before the preliminaries are resolved - before all streets are found. Bypassing prerequisites always has serious consequences, things go wrong, errors occur, time is wasted, work is duplicated by others, etc. Even patients may die.

I'd suggest that no one yet knows how this will impact research that's already been completed and which now has to be reinvestigated.

Re: Researchers discover new salivary glands in the human head

#202

Post by hilbert42 »

r721 wrote: post #7

NYT's title is a bit more cautious: >Doctors May Have Found Secretive New Organs in the Center of Your Head https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/19/health/saliva-glands-new-... >Dr. Alvand Hassankhani, a radiologist at the University of Pennsylvania, said he was hesitant to label the structures “new organs.” In addition to the three pairs of known large salivary glands, some 1,000 minor salivary glands are sprinkled acros…

Right, it'll be interesting to see if this turns out to be another medical research news beat-up. As I keep repeating, hyped up medical and science stories are very counterproductive, they end up turning people away from science, as they are repeatedly disappointed when the promised 'goods aren't delivered.

Over many decades, we've seen this all too often with news releases about cancer research. It's done great harm.

Re: Researchers discover new salivary glands in the human head

#203

Post by 52-6F-62 »

JabavuAdams wrote: post #162
52-6F-62 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah... and hearing some of those being related to the gut. I’ve been diagnosed with a condition this year without real, solid evidence for cause. Seeing some of the brightest doctors try and write off health matters to alcoholism in non-alcoholics was concerning. After even cursory, high-level reading of what those terms mean elf me to believe it’s the favoured diagnosis when they’re unsure of the diagnosis and hesi…

That sucks. The thing to understand is that the vast majority of doctors don't have the mindset of scientists or even engineers. They're more like plumbers who have to triage/fix 400 houses a day.

Oh and I absolutely understand.

Especially right now when they’re under an even greater crunch due to the added pressures and constraints added by the pandemic.

Re: Researchers discover new salivary glands in the human head

#204

Post by [deleted] »

rbanffy wrote: post #179
grishka wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing with bytes, and everything else pertaining to computing, is that it's wholly invented by humans, so of course it's possible to obtain a complete enough mental image of things like CPUs given enough documentation. Human body, on the other hand, is literally alien technology because humans themselves didn't take any part in engineering it.

Are you sure the CPU you are using now actually has the same number of registers that the ISA documentation says? Even here, we have surprises. Every modern x86 in use has thousands of errata pages in the specs.

[deleted]

Re: Researchers discover new salivary glands in the human head

#206

Post by [deleted] »

Balgair wrote: post #125
simonh wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We know there's stuff there, but we don't necessarily know what all of it does. In this case the tissue in question was probably thought to be part of a known larger structure, but now it turns out it has a distinct function. Slices aren't going to tell you that.

On top of that, not every one has the same tissues in the same places, or the same tissues at all . Most famous is the palmaris longus muscle in the arm. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmaris_longus_muscle ~14% of humans lack this muscle. Other deviations range from colorblindness all the way to lack of a cerebellum entirely. Humans are quite variable, even when healthy.

[deleted]

Re: Researchers discover new salivary glands in the human head

#207

Post by m463 »

christkv wrote: post #186
m463 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm reminded of the scene in Mad Men where Roger says something to the effect of "I did everything they said for my ulcer, I drank the buttermilk. and now I have a coronary!" Also, in the book "The King of Hearts" which describes the history of open heart surgery, the first open heart surgeries were done by sewing the circulatory system of two people together (usually mother and child). that was in the recent past.

You might find the book The Butchering Art: Joseph Lister's Quest to Transform the Grisly World of Victorian Medicine interesting. Crazy to think that the training to become a surgeon led to a lot of people dying from cutting into infected cadavers during training.

I didn't read the book, but the Joe Rogan interview with the author was a favorite episode. She was the right mix of smart, enthusiastic, craz.... eccentric.

EDIT: Joe Rogan #1272 - Lindsey Fitzharris

Re: Researchers discover new salivary glands in the human head

#208

Post by achillesheels »

grishka wrote: post #200
achillesheels wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a matter of fact, Nature does have logic. It’s motion is principally geometrical and affords us the ability to recursively structure electrical signals harmonically, eg feedback amplification. Feedback circuits are vital to biological systems and prove my point.

> Feedback circuits are vital to biological systems and prove my point. Yes they are. Consciousness is a result of an electric feedback loop, and aging is apparently a result of a chemical feedback loop but that wasn't proven completely yet (that's the feedback loop I'd very much like disrupted). But again, that's not what I'm talking about. You're missing my point entirely. I'm talking about connections that aren't…

I see what you are saying. Sorry for missing the point. Of course I have to agree that what you describe is the enterprise of scientific discovery altogether! My point on that end is all these “mysteries” in the biological domain are easier to spot with the proper framework. Right now the biological sciences do not emphasize any mathematically rigorous understanding of electricity which is keeping their blinders on. It is intuitive to understand the oxidation reactions, per your example, dielectrically, but the researchers certainly lack the cohesive understanding.

Re: Researchers discover new salivary glands in the human head

#209

Post by exolymph »

toxicFork wrote: post #193
exolymph wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not? Why would you think that?

It was probably a joke. You know we're looking for the soul, right? Some say it's a part of the body. If this was the soul this would have made a lot of philosophers unhappy. Unfortunately it's just saliva. Maybe next time.

Ah, didn't realize it was meant as a joke.

Re: Researchers discover new salivary glands in the human head

#210

Post by LocalH »

ainiriand wrote: post #102
scoopertrooper wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, we've made some great leaps and they shouldn't be discounted, but neural-science is still in its infancy. We still don't know the exact mechanism of action of many commonly prescribed psychoactive medications. We know they work because, unlike in the past, we conduct rigorous studies, but we can only theorise as to why the work and why they don't have the same effect in all patients. This has real implications f…

What still amazes me is the placebo effect. That is just pure mind-blowing-ness. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#Mechanisms

I feel the placebo effect characterizes the true power of the mind, of which we’ve only scratched the surface. I think the newfound interest in researching psychedelics also shows some real promise in understanding consciousness.
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