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Chess’s Cheating Crisis

theguardian.com

201–210 of 284 posts

Re: Chess’s Cheating Crisis

#201
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

play in a Faraday cage

While not a Faraday cage, for some high-ranked tournaments (like the WC title) they are now subjected to a scan almost like at an airport before entering a sealed room.

The rules state that the playing space includes a bathroom, a place to smoke, and the halls between. There are limits to what you are allowed to have in the playing space.

Re: Chess’s Cheating Crisis

#202
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of it from my layman's perspective is that today, even home exercising frequently involves protein shakes. As you go into even basic body building or training, you start taking more and more "Stuff". There's no clear obvious intuitive big line between "natural talent and hard work" and "illegal chemical cheating". Reading the details of the tests involved a few years ago made me believe the line we draw is thin,…

How are protein shakes and such 'stuff' at all approaching performance enhancing chemicals? Performance enhancing chemicals make the body do things it wouldn't normally do, directly modifying behavior to be different than it could be without that substance. Protein shakes are just providing nutrients so the body can make full use of exercise. Giving the body a nutrient rich liquid food is very different from a drug.…

You do realize that transfusion of your own blood, even with zero 3rd party chemicals, is also doping? But it only provides nutrients too, or to be more precise concentrated result of those nutrients.

Re: Chess’s Cheating Crisis

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some classes, especially as you get higher in fields, no amount of open books will help you in an exam. If you're able to figure out the material using a book then and there while not knowing it before, you deserve the grade.

My lowest level graph theory exam at university was "bring anything you think will help you". Including our teacher's book which had all the course contents and then some. Of course, it only helped you if you had gone through the material a couple times and knew (and mostly understood) exactly what was there, and you used the book to refresh minor details.

I studied mathematics too. Algebra and Number Theory.

I believe people should be able to have pretty much any book (not software) at their disposal when doing university level math exams. It is stupid to fail because your overworked brain forgot some formula (did not happen to me, but easily could). And people who did not study beforehand will not be able to cheat their way through, at least not in the time limit needed.

This isn't paramedic training where you need to do the right thing in seconds.

Re: Chess’s Cheating Crisis

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Play Magnus is close to indistinguishable, it's a modified version of Stockfish on the backend, having the same rating doesn't mean you have the same style

Yup. It's absolutely possible to determine whether you play versus a strength reduced/weak engine or a human. Humans make human plans and play according to human best practices, which you can find in chess literature. Engines, however, do not make long term plans and often play very inhuman (perfectly precise, unobvious tactical) moves, that often suprises even on grandmaster level.

I'm not sure if saying engines don't make long term plans is accurate, since we can set them to plan an arbitrary number of moves ahead. I think you mean that they don't have a theory of mind, and thus don't modulate their play based on their opponents.

Re: Chess’s Cheating Crisis

#205
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>sailing, canoe and kayak events How much money is behind those sports? Hint...NOT much. We Talk about Cycling, Athletics, Football and so on.. >I know for a fact that 3 isn't even used on national-cup event in France No you don't. BTW: I knew for a Fact that Lance Armstrong was the biggest Cycle Pro ever born and he would never need doping because he was just in another league then anyone else. EDIT: Would you look…

There is a lot of money in sailing, but in general most of the gains there are from better boats, so the backers putting money in aren't likely spend money on doping. (doping would help, but every dollar spent on dope is a dollar not spent on boat design)

>There is a lot of money in sailing

Not the Olympic sailing...Oracle stuff yes...but do you really need doping for sailing? It's more about tactics not ultra high-end body-strength..i sailed Lasers for 4 years and it is demanding, but nothing against Street-cycling/CrossCountry

Re: Chess’s Cheating Crisis

#206

Too bad lichess.org isn't mentioned; unlike chess dot com it's free, open source and blazingly fast.

the UX with puzzles on chess.com is much better. The analysis after the game is also pretty cool. It did help me become better. (I'm a super noob) I would happily use lichess but there's a lack of feedback after games there (IMO)

Re: Chess’s Cheating Crisis

#207
I have recently closed my chess.com account which I had since 2008. I got tired of cheaters. Actually cheaters forced me to only play 3+2 games in the hope they would not have enough time to check each move with the engine, but lately because of better and better cheating tools and higher and higher network latency, that solution stopped working. Now I can see exactly the same trend on lichess. Last year it was a rarity to meet a cheater on lichess. Now it is happening more often.

Re: Chess’s Cheating Crisis

#208

I used to cheat on chess.com. It started as a small bit of cheating here and there, just checking every now and then if the move I was going to make was the best. Of course, the computer always had a better move and then I examine the line and told myself I probably would have thought of that! Like a drug, it escalated and I was checking moves all the time. I was never caught but I was ashamed and just stopped playin…

Lichess will flag your account as a cheater w/o notifying you so that your opponents see the flag and avoid games. I know this because a friend of mine who is an average player got flagged that way after a stretch of games he won handily, including one against me where I checked computer analysis and noticed he made zero incorrect moves. A red flag popped up next to his screenname, I asked if he was aware of it and h…

They should pair cheaters with cheaters.

Re: Chess’s Cheating Crisis

#209

I used to cheat on chess.com. It started as a small bit of cheating here and there, just checking every now and then if the move I was going to make was the best. Of course, the computer always had a better move and then I examine the line and told myself I probably would have thought of that! Like a drug, it escalated and I was checking moves all the time. I was never caught but I was ashamed and just stopped playin…

I cheated on Lichess--once. Story: I got paired with someone rated 400 points higher than me (no idea why). The dude was destroying me, but somewhere in the middlegame, he let his guard down and exposed himself to a mate-in-one. For once in my life, I saw the mate and I won. The dude was FURIOUS. He immediately asked for a rematch and I said I had to go. Then the insults came ("chicken shit", etc.). He even messaged…

>I got paired with someone rated 400 points higher than me (no idea why)

If you haven't played in a while, then glicko will give you a wide ratings deviation, and pair you against much stronger or much weaker opponents: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glicko_rating_system

Re: Chess’s Cheating Crisis

#210
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, that's BS. In some sports and some top ranks, maybe there is a lot of money behind. But that's a very narrow view of "elite athlete". I personally know some Olympic finalists in some sports, and they certainly don't see big money. They struggle to actually train full-time over an Olympic cycle (4 years) without having to have some part-time job that puts food on the table and pays for gear, trips to training c…

>I personally know some Olympic finalists in some sports, and they certainly don't see big money MONEY BEHIND...that's something else. And the Athletes don't pay for the Stuff, AND it's not in every sport and not every sport profits from doping.

I replied to "basically every elite athlete is doping." That's definitely BS. So, you agree with me then?

My friend was in the finals in Beijing and in London, top-6. In London half a second from a medal. Yes doping would help immensely but those guys have too much honor to do this. No, there is no money behind. He gets sponsoring in form of a boat which is sponsored by the manufacturer. The rest of his life's expenses, all travels, housing, shipping of his equipment, bring wife and kids along sometimes, mortgage on their house, all that needs to be paid for. And it was a struggle to finance all this. Friends help, family helps, and a few local companies in his hometown chip in. He is a construction engineer and his net worth is less than half mine as a mid-30 programmer.

So yes, everybody keep downvoting me and ignore that not every "elite athlete" is some overpaid basketball or soccer pro making 8-figures a year and evading taxes.

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