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PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

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Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#201
post #199
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The act of secretly (or I guess not so secretly now) monitoring civilian information is a loss of a freedom in and of itself. Freedom from undue government interference in an otherwise normal citizen's life. It's existence is confirmation in and of itself, another overreach.

What do you mean in tangible and concrete terms? How has my life been made worse by these laws? You need to explain that because these abstract concepts don't seem to motivate people to action.

Your life is worse because the government is openly antagonist towards the populace it was created to serve. Even if it doesn't effect you now all you need to do is look at historical examples from other nations going down the same path. There's a reason the poem "First they came ..." exists and it's a direct counter point to the argument you're making.

Otherwise I don't know what you want here, historically the masses mostly don't do anything until they start starving. Most large acts of rebellion were put together by a small band of agitators often high ranking members of the establishment who for whatever reason decide they've had enough then publicize and promote it and then often pay the common folk to fight. The US for instance was majority founded by a bunch of rich people who were tired of the type of taxes levied on them. The continental army for instance was paid to fight. My point being is any action is going to be taken by people who care about the abstract notions, the rank and file will be paid to care or provided some equal material value.

Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#202

But we were told it would save lives and was for saving the world? That means it's completely impossible for such things to be a lie doesn't it? As long as you say something is for saving the world or doing good and accuse all others who might raise questions about it of being terrorists/communists/racists/nazis etc it simply has to be true doesn't it? I mean as long as someone just says something is to save lives or…

Hasn't it always been this way?

The emperor has been naked for a very long time but most people seem to care just enough to attack the messengers.

Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#203

No one should be surprised by this. This program was simply another extension of the US's march towards authoritarianism. Much like the patriot act and our secret warrants, founded on a dubious premise that over the last 20 years have largely borne no fruit in terms of protecting our freedoms and safety but have instead eroded them. This is a system designed to protect the larger system from any civs who may be getti…

It has nothing to do with that whatsoever. Who specifically do you think is concerned about civilians being a little too rebellious? As usual, the truth is far less interesting. But, it has nothing to do with civilian unrest or authoritarianism at all. You are probably mistaking incompetence for malice. Then again, most people still misunderstand what PRISM actually was.

If you believe you have some keen insight do share.

Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't give a uck about the shoes actually but I absolutely don't feel like unlocking my phone or laptop, even though there's nothing criminal.

Why not? Seriously. I feel like there are a thousand things in life that annoy me -- like sitting at a red traffic light when its clear I can go w/o any danger to anyone. It just seems like its low cost. And maybe of some value that I don't understand since I don't really study terrorist methods.

> Why not?

Because a computer/smartphone is practically an organ, a brain extension. Letting other people read its content without limitations is like letting them read your actual memory and thoughts (including those you'd like to keep private between yourself and your partners of all the kinds - business, sex, whatever) and probably even plant a backdoor for spying on you in future (I don't know about the US TSA but Chinese border authorities are known to do so). I wouldn't feel comfortable about that.

> I don't really study terrorist methods.

What if I, occasionally, do? Out of pure curiosity. I believe I have googled and downloaded a lot of content which could be found suspicious although I hardly ever had time to read that so far, pure curiosity and information hoarding are my only motivation.

Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What examples do you have an authoritarian slide caused by PRISM? I see plenty of examples of authoritarianism in the current U.S. administration, none of which can be traced to PRISM.

I am interested in knowing your examples.

PRISM is a good one...? National security letters as well. Black sites. The penal/prison system in general.

Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#206
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America is the only country I've flow through (15+) where you are still required to take off your shoes. It's dumb theater and the TSA is pointless.

There was a shoe bomber who almost took down an airplane. [1] Shoes, when they are not inspected, are rational places for people to hide explosives. While it may or may not be a 'valid' tool, it's not rational to say it's 'pointless' when it's literally a known - and used - vector of attack. It's not 'pointless' - the question is, 'is it a good policy given the likelihood of attack, the effectiveness of 'shoes throug…

It is pointless. It's stupidly pointless. Shove the bomb up your ass, they can't check in there. "But the scanner..." Ok, so opt out and do the pat down. I opt out every time.

The TSA is completely hairbrained. They don't proactively think of anything, they only react to stuff that has already happened. Always one step behind. So useful.

Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#208
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "Patriot Act" is so maliciously named its more funny than sad. Reminds me of George Carlin's show about changing words to make them softer.[1] An good example he used to show this is the condition the fighters get from shock in combat. In WW1, it was called Shell Shock, a terrifying name. The same condition in WW1 was called Battle Fatigue, a nicer name. In the Korean War, the name changed to Operational Exhausti…

Well "fatigue", "exhaustion" and "shock" imply you could just get over those, as medicine advanced we got a better picture of what it is, hence the more precise term now. As for the "Patriot Act", it's funny how ironic of a name it is.

There was a predecessor name to Shellshock of "Soldier's Heart" back in the American Civil war. In such a brother against brother civil war it wouldn't have been judged shameful but with later militarism could have implied "weakness" against the propaganda dehumanized foreign menance. Assuring memory held to WWI and it wasn't an independent rediscovery/reinvention "shell shock" dodged the character image driven denial of having it or its existance by implying more physical damage as even valiant brave men are not immune to bullets and explosions. Men were facing charges of cowardice after fleeing vast trauma and it eased accepting "the man who fled after a many months long bloody stalemate isn't a craven but bearing invisible injuries sustained for his country so executing him would be a terrible wrong". Thus ironically shell shock could be called an ego saving euphemism itself.

And well authoritarians have no sense of irony - what they think is "ironic" is presenting their true self when it unacceptable and passing it off as a joke. Thus they destroy freedom to protect freedom the same as they destroy the village to save it.

Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At a recent happy hour, a friend-of-a-friend who is into all government conspiracy theories (including thinking Covid is a hoax) was there. It got kind of heated, and one question I asked him was "If the government is so hellbent on instituting surveillance technology everywhere, why would they also advocate for you to wear a mask, which hinders current face recognition capabilities?" Unsurprisingly, he didn't have a…

>...why would they also advocate for you to wear a mask, which hinders current face recognition capabilities? Not a very good conspiracy theorist! Obviously 'person' recognition tools, facial recognition included, are good enough that models work without facial data, hindering America's enemies but giving America the upper hand. This uses the assumption that miltech is anywhere from 10-100 years ahead of bleeding edg…

The dumb counterfactual assumption but "logical" reason is they already have a working facial recognition profile of everyone without a mask but they need more masked training data to work around it and can't simply digitally add a mask to their old training set.

Contradicted by what we know about current facial recognition technology but in a "make sure that the bullets are sterile, we don't want any wounded prisoners to die of an infection before we get any intelligence" sort of way.

Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What examples do you have an authoritarian slide caused by PRISM? I see plenty of examples of authoritarianism in the current U.S. administration, none of which can be traced to PRISM.

I am interested in knowing your examples.

Does this [1] from 2015 meet your criteria?

[1] It’s Time to Put an End to the NSA’s Bulk Collection of Americans’ Metadata https://www.nationalreview.com/2015/04/its-time-put-end-nsas...

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