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Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

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Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#201
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One potential downside to steady regimented fasting _when combined_ with caloric restriction, is a decrease in your basal metabolic rate (BMR). Check out The Complete Guide to Intermittent Fasting. The research he cites shows that the effect you describe occurs in caloric restriction diets, not fasting. Fasting increases HGH and maintains BMR. Perhaps what you are describing is the early days of fasting when your b…

I've read the book. The same thing still applies and I believe I've seen a video where Fung has confirmed it but I don't have the link handy. Fasting enables us to not have to focus on calorie restrictions to see a reduction in body weight. However, if you only eat 500 calories a day, eventually you will run out of fat and your BMR will go down as you approach a lower BMI. It's a very slow and gradual process, but it…

Right, I see what you are saying. Your BMR decreases not directly due to fasting but due to the fact that you are a lower weight. The results of fasting (weight loss) leads to lower BMR. Whereas caloric restriction shifts BMR down regardless of whether weight is lost.

I agree with your anecdotal evidence. I do 36 hour fasts 2x per week, and otherwise do 20-22 hour fasts. Every now and then I do a longer, 48-72 hour fast. I am in awe of people that get to 5-10 day fasts and hope to work up to this over time, perhaps on a quarterly basis.

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hello! Long time faster here (lost over 80lbs in about 9 months with basically zero exercise). One potential downside to steady regimented fasting _when combined_ with caloric restriction, is a decrease in your basal metabolic rate (BMR). Our bodies are very good at adapting to "the new normal" and will optimize itself to function on the fuel you give it. This is true in both directions. If you eat less, your body wi…

I fast regularly and have a 5-6 hour eating window. During that window I just cannot eat more than 1500 calories. If typical caloric reduction can trigger starvation type response in the body, why does it not happen when we reduce calories during fasting?

Caloric restriction does not lead to an increase in Human Growth Hormone. There are a bunch of other hormonal changes that occur when the caloric input is zero, versus when it is something. That’s why study after study shows fasting is superior to caloric restriction.

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've gone as long as 12 days with nothing but water. This is dangerous and please don't encourage others to do only water fast. Pure water fast is dangerous beyond 4 days or so. You need to supplement minerals while on per-longed fast. Salt, magnesium and potassium are vital to regulatory processes in your body. When your body uses up all reserves it will not be able to sustain those processes. It is serious busine…

I’ve yet to find a form of potassium that doesn’t upset my stomach when fasting. I’ve tried nu-salt, potassium citrate, and cream of tarter so far. I’m about to give up on total fasts and have bone broth a few times a day for the minerals.

potassium iodide might work for you.

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm saying neither of us has anything. But that you are making a mistake in thinking you do have something.

I asked for evidence. Rather than providing any you went on a diatribe about science. Until you can provide any reasonable evidence of your claim, you are nothing but a crank.

Yes - it was a diatribe about science but I thought there was a reason for it.

You assume that poisoning people to kill the cancer is a sensible treatment. There is supportive evidence for that, but I'm saying the evidence is actually PR for big pharma, not the unbiased evidence you think it is.

So, from my point of view, we both have no evidence.

But I am saying you are mislead when you think you have evidence.

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve yet to find a form of potassium that doesn’t upset my stomach when fasting. I’ve tried nu-salt, potassium citrate, and cream of tarter so far. I’m about to give up on total fasts and have bone broth a few times a day for the minerals.

potassium iodide might work for you.

Thanks. I’ll try it out.

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#206
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it that extraordinary evidence needs to be provided for the claim that a poison (chemotherapy) is a cure for cancer? Let's start by not conflating all kinds of cancer and all kinds of chemotherapy, because it's not a single disease, and the outcomes vary greatly. But, for instance, survival rates for testicular cancer have risen significantly (or even dramatically) since the invention and introduction of the che…

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I don't say that there are no good things coming out of the medical industry. Sometimes there are good things, and when it comes to bodily trauma, I think the medical profession is excellent at stitching people back together again. But I'm especially interested in wellness and optimal living. I genuinely don't feel the industry has anything to offer on that front. Food is probably th…

I don't know that particular theory, but I don't think it would really make sense to try and have a unified theory of disease, alternative or otherwise. (I don't think medical science really even tries to have one.)

Various diseases have such different causes that we cannot really expect to proscribe a common theory to them. The symptoms of cold are mostly caused by the immune reaction (and medical doctors also acknowledge that). Sometimes you may need to curb that immune reaction e.g. with antipyretic medication because the reaction could be disproportionately strong and be dangerous in and of itself; sometimes it may be best to just let it be. Sometimes it doesn't really matter one way or the other, and you could either take symptom-relieving medication to ease how you feel or elect not to.

(FWIW, I generally prefer not to take medication for a cold, partially because it doesn't help the healing -- in the case of cold, only time does -- and partially because artificially improving the symptoms might make you feel better than you actually are and thus make you believe you can already do more when you should still rest. So I kind of agree with you that people may take medication too lightly in some cases, but I certainly wouldn't treat all disease the same, because different disease are very different in many regards.)

In cancer, your own cells have begun to divide and grow uncontrollably. Normally cells have various kinds of built-in controls for growth and longevity; in cancer those controls have failed, and not just one of them but a number of them at once. Since there's always a nonzero probability of a mutation causing one of those mechanisms to fail, there's always a smaller but still nonzero probability of enough of them failing that the result is going to be a malignant tumor.

I fail to see why we should consider a tumorous growth as a reaction of the body trying to heal itself from something else. First of all, from what; and secondly, how would that even begin to accomplish the goal? On the other hand, the generally accepted understanding that it's just cells where enough things have wrong that they have gone into uncontrolled division and growth makes perfect sense.

Again, your immune system is going to (or at least should) react to that, but that's not what causes the disease, or perhaps not even most of the symptoms. (I lack the understanding to comment on how much of the immediate symptoms of cancer are caused by immune reaction, not to mention that cancer is again not a single consistent disease, but in any case, let's not pretend that cells that are nonfunctional and uncontrollably taking over space from your healthy tissue isn't going to be a disaster in most cases regardless of that.)

Also, many factors influence the risk of cancer, including nutrition. That's also undoubtedly true of many other diseases, and medical science agrees on that. (Different studies might come up with different results on what exactly those factors might be, but that's largely due to the complexity of the topic.) In some disease (e.g. cardiovascular) it might even be the most significant one.

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It's true that medicine traditionally focuses on treating disease, not on what generates wellness beyond that. I agree that there's a lot that can be achieved outside of medicine that can be beneficial for wellness (and even health).

It's also true that big pharma probably has an effect on doctors and their education. However, I don't think that makes medicine generally suspect. Rather, the truth is more nuanced and in between. Doctors, especially at major hospitals, have significant clinical experience in their fields, and that's not immediately affected by pharmacological research. Also, not all medical (or even all pharmacological) research is funded by the industry. Criticism of big pharma or even medical research is not without merit, but I think the impression I get from your comments is too cynical of the field.

While wellness is something where it's often best to listen to yourself, I would urge anyone with serious illness to seek medical treatment. That's certainly so at least in case of disease such as cancer which have well-established and evidence-based treatments.

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#207

Or perhaps, fasting is the cure, and can even undo the harm from chemo!

PS in case anyone stumbles on this and wants to look deeper, I just recollected one of the pioneers of this sort of treatment: The Gerson Institute - https://gerson.org/

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#208
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

while on fasts, you get an energy level and mental clarity that has to be felt to be believed. everyone should try it at least once.

I have fasted 100 lbs away over the last 2 years. I adhere to an 18/6 time delay eating schedule but have done 2-3 day fasts with 1 refeed meal for a month at a time. I've also done countless 5-7 day fasts. I've gone as long as 12 days with nothing but water. There were many months where I could count the number of times I ate on one hand. My last go was every other day with just one meal on my eating days. I did tha…

Same here - I've been eating only one meal a day mon-fri for literally years. I also do 2-3 day fasts here and there, my longest was five days. No changes in mental clarity and energy.

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. Any studies that validate the first point? I recall research talking about how there’s little muscle wastage until day 21 in normal healthy adults. Keen to know if we have learned more in this space

The figure I have seen is that muscle wasting drops to less than 0.2 kg per day once the body fully enter ketosis. Obviously, anyone considering a fast longer than a few days should do so under the supervision of a doctor who can monitor electrolyte levels etc. They can also check for the rare enzyme defect called Medium-chain acyl-CoA dehydrogenase deficiency, those with it are unable to fast safely.

Isn't 0.2 kg per day is a huge amount of muscle?? Thats half a pound a day!

Re: Fasting improves chemotherapy results and protects from side effects: study

#210
post #42
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did a 3 day fast to see what it was all about. The energy levels were not there. I would get tired after a short brisk walk. Physically I was weaker but still had burst strength just no endurance or cardio. Mentally however I found myself unable to have too many variables in my head and my mind was not more able to focus on something but less distracted with extraneous thoughts. I could if I wanted to shut off the…

I don't think that a sudden 3 days fast will bring any immediate benefits (perhaps some weight loss), on the contrary. I see fasting more as a long term, life choice. I do feel more energetic and sharp during fasting. I recently did a full check-up (I'm 48) and all my blood/urine values were spot on - before starting my fasting protocol some values mostly related to arteriosclerosis were slightly over the recommended…

Definitely. I started deopping breakfast. At first it was hell. But you get used to it. Noe I’m down to one meal a day. It’s very convenient, and my energy levels aren’t affected by food intake.
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