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Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

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Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#201

Post by jwandborg »

larsnystrom wrote: post #185
jstummbillig wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. It's infuriating what Apple gets away with in Germany. For example right now to maybe get my 2018 MacBook Pro keyboard fixed, I have to relinquish the unit for a minimum of five workdays. Mind you nobody guarantees me that they will actually do the repair within the time frame or that it will in fact be covered by the extended warranty. This is just the minimum time they will hold the unit to have a loo…

I actually just handed in my 2016 MBP and got the keyboard replaced under their extended 4 year “butterfly mishap”-warranty. The new keyboard feels so much better than the last one. Plus they also replaced the battery because it’s all soldered together, so battery life got like 50% better. It cost me nothing and they did it when I was on vacation anyway, so it wasn’t much of a nuisance. No data loss at all. I live in…

Would you take vacation the next time your laptop breaks?

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#202

Post by P_I_Staker »

grugagag wrote: post #120
P_I_Staker wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like working with mobile / laptop parts except for user replaceable, or very easy ones. They make all kind of decisions with no repairability in mind. It can be very error prone. All that said, IDK how hard a MBP battery is. The HTC m8 I tried to replace the battery on, it was one of the last parts you could remove and a bit of a mess of wires, glue, ribbon, and tape. Of course that was a cell phone and a lap…

I broke an iphone a couple of years ago while replacing the battery. I follower all the instructions but some small part accidentally snapped. I swore Id never touch such tiny corcuitry ever and instead go to a repair guy who charges quite decently, depending on the model. Sometimes its now worth fixing it, the parts and fixing fee are a bit above buting a refurb.

Yeah, I completed a mid-2011 screen replacement. The screen worked, but it'd never leave sleep. It's a very repairable device. I'm sure people that do it all day have an easier time. I was able to fix my projector, which was pretty cool. A rare win.

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#203

Post by LockAndLol »

girishso wrote: post #167
LockAndLol wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple really doesn't like the environment, does it? You're forced to get a new device every time. God for business, shit for the world. But Apple customers don't seem to care one bit.

I’ve wondered the same for some time, they intentionally used to degrade performance of older iPhones on OS upgrade. Or sell spare parts at obscene prices, actually buying a new device makes more sense than repairing, creating more e-waste. Calls itself a green company! Disclaimer: you can call me a Apple fanboy, exclusively using multiple Macs for > 12 years, never owned a smartphone that’s not iPhone.

If you're aware of this, is it going to change your shopping behavior?

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#204

Post by LockAndLol »

justaguyhere wrote: post #195
LockAndLol wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple really doesn't like the environment, does it? You're forced to get a new device every time. God for business, shit for the world. But Apple customers don't seem to care one bit.

I've a macbook air which is 9 years old, which never gave me a problem until now even after tons of abuse. My work laptop is Dell, about 4 years old - wifi drops at random, battery has swollen etc. Maybe the reason Apple customers don't care is because their machines give them less trouble? And they have more disposable income? Not defending Apple here (my next computer is definitely not going to be Apple), just tryi…

For your anecdote there are many others to the contrary. 2 colleagues with Macbook Pros had to hand them in after about 3 years.

A friend bought her Macbook in 2016 or so as a student and it went started having screen problems after a year... so she promptly bought a new one because repairing cost as much a new one. A loan was necessary for that too (poor student).

There was a shared Macbook Pro at work with a bad screen that also had a faulty RAM and it too was easier to simply replace than pay for repair. I was told there was some kind of support contract on it too.

A friend got a secondhand Macbook from 2012 that got slower over the years. Still had a CD/DVD drive and booting from it took about 2 minutes, more until actually accepted input. I resized the Mac partition and installed ubuntu 18.04 on the other partition and that booted more quickly + ran more fluidly with KDE. Her laptop wasn't supported by Apple anymore and she couldn't update the OS either.

I honestly don't see how Mac is easier to use, more reliable or even better supported. Imo, it's just habit, a flashy UI and the "exclusivity" price point. It's a status symbol more than anything. Giving that up is difficult for many, I assume.

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#205

Post by stale2002 »

ghostwriter wrote: post #173
stale2002 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why should companies not be allowed to compete along this axis of features? They can be allowed to compete in those features. That's fine. But people should also be allowed to do whatever they want with devices that they own. Including getting it fixed by a 3rd party. > Surely the markets have spoken No, the market has not spoken. Because Apple will sue you if you try to do independent repairs, without going throug…

> No, the market has not spoken. Because Apple will sue you if you try to do independent repairs, without going through them. can't you just avoid Apple and buy phones that are easier to repair? That's how market works.

> can't you just avoid Apple and buy phones that are easier to repair? That's how market works.

It is absolutely not a market if Apple is suing people for engaging in voluntary trade.

You can feel free to not support markets, if you don't like. It sounds to me like you do not support free markets.

But please do not pretend that it is a free market, when Apple is literally suing people, for engaging in voluntary trade regarding devices that they own.

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#206

Post by kyriakos »

jwandborg wrote: post #201
larsnystrom wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually just handed in my 2016 MBP and got the keyboard replaced under their extended 4 year “butterfly mishap”-warranty. The new keyboard feels so much better than the last one. Plus they also replaced the battery because it’s all soldered together, so battery life got like 50% better. It cost me nothing and they did it when I was on vacation anyway, so it wasn’t much of a nuisance. No data loss at all. I live in…

Would you take vacation the next time your laptop breaks?

I'm not an apple fan and never owned an apple laptop but, even with other brands unless you buy their enterprise models (e.g. dell latitude, lenovo thinkpad) with the appropriate warranty you won't get same day hardware support in most of Europe.

And even with onsite support with Dell I had a case when the battery died completely and the laptop could only work when plugged in, they did show up at the office, they checked it out diagnosed that the battery is dead (no kidding), and came back 2 days later with a new battery.

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#207

Post by soulofmischief »

egsmi wrote: post #105
soulofmischief wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you referring to the secure enclave?

That’s a part of the machine therefore it would technically be included by the statement given on the right to repair policy page. Obviously that page is meant to be a high level statement, it’s not law. But hopefully you can see my point.

The secure enclave might end up being where the trap door goes. :(

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#208

Post by CogitoCogito »

qppo wrote: post #63

This may be controversial (or maybe not, this is HN and not reddit), but there's a question I've never seen answered. I don't really care about how easy it is to repair my phone, or at least not as much as I care about using iOS. I knew if my iPhone were to break I'd have to take it to Apple, so I pay for Apple Care (like I pay for iCloud for my backups). I don't feel like I've been swindled. I feel like I made the p…

> Why do we need to kneecap one business model in favor of another, and limit engineers ability to make design decisions because that business model is not viable?

That is what _every_ business-related regulation is designed to do so the general rhetorical question is a bit odd. As to why, well honestly there are many reasons. User control, business competition, e-waste, etc. Look into the reasoning behind similar sorts of regulations involving cars in the US for the last couple generations.

You may not agree with the reasoning, but acting like this sort of regulation is somehow odd doesn't make much sense. There's enormous precedence and lots of reasoning behind it.

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#209

Post by JoshTriplett »

AriaMinaei wrote: post #196
JoshTriplett wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A modular battery would make the laptop bulkier. If a modular NVMe drive wouldn't, it's because other components have already have. And beyond that, you should be comparing to an Air or MacBook, if we're talking about devices that have been optimized at the expense of modularity. Also, soldering down RAM means you don't have to include support for negotiating the properties and quality of arbitrary RAM sticks, which…

> There are good reasons to design components to work specifically with other components. There are also good reasons to make devices more modular. Both have value, to different users with different use cases. If your point is that there is a trade-off to modularity, I'm not sure who it is in response to. It's obvious that modularity has a tradeoff. And I don't see any significant group in this conversation contendin…

> If your point is that there is a trade-off to modularity, I'm not sure who it is in response to. It's obvious that modularity has a tradeoff. And I don't see any significant group in this conversation contending that. Nobody is asking for a user-replaceable RAM on an iPhone.

I've seen many people in "right to repair" discussions arguing for legal mandates that every device must have a replaceable battery, for instance. That goes beyond having the right to repair, and into restricting the manufacture of devices.

If we start legislating technical architecture, we limit the possibility of innovation and competition, and we drastically reduce the chances that anyone will ever dethrone any of the current market leaders by building something nobody saw coming.

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#210

Post by junar »

viridian wrote: post #178
oxfordmale wrote: post #164

Lack of repairability is the main reason I do not buy Mac Books. Yes, they are more reliable, however, if you encounter a problem, you endure a long wait at a Mac Book repair centre that is miles away. My work laptop developed an issue while I was on holidays in Spain, and if it had been a PC it could have been easily fixed by any of the local repair centres. Of course Apple being Apple, I would have to drive 2 hours…

Last I checked apple was forth in manufacture reliability, behind Asus, Toshiba, and Sony. They are better than average, but people really overestimate the build quality of the macbook.

That must have been a really long time ago, if you're listing Toshiba and Sony, which are both gone from the laptop market, and had a tiny market share for many years before their exit.
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