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YouTube: Community contributions will be discontinued across all channels

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Re: YouTube: Community contributions will be discontinued across all channels

#201
post #199
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fine, but why are they so bad at weighing it against long term trust? I want to remind the loss aversion and status quo bias. We tend to evaluate losses more important than they are, which is why for example it is hard to throw seldom used things away. That said, why should feature removal mean automatic loss of trust? Because this feature is not important to me personally, it actually increases my trust that they…

Never heard the name "status quo bias" before, thanks for bringing that up. I don't really care about this particular feature, but I do care about the trend. Why should a feature be sunset? It seems like this must be because of (a) bugs/maintenance burden or (b) a poor design or one that is mismatched with the current product direction. The fact that Google sunsets so many features and products suggests that both of…

I totally sympathize with the frustration, and experience that as a user too. But I would like to suggest that digital product design is usually a moving target, based on constantly changing consumer engagement, competition and other market conditions, so they have to follow a dynamic, adaptive strategy. Now, could they commit on a feature despite these, yes of course, but that too many of such commitments will have a cost to us users in terms of lack of new innovation.

I imagine this picture; a “tech-smith” is building an elaborate, complicated machinery and we as the users are watching it, clapping to it, interacting with it. Some are asking “this machine should have bells”, some go “it should have whistles”, and the techsmith wants to add and remove those based on those parameters. In reality, no one knows what the final machine should look like and no one knows how exactly they will use it. So there is a sweet spot in which unexpected changes are budgeted for so that it can change to conform better to what we want and what we find useful as we gain experience with the machine. Which means sometimes the techsmith will need to go “you know what, I’m going to take this bell away because not many are using it and it is causing me problems, and instead I’ll use the materials and energy to add these extra wheels” even after having invested a lot to that bell initially (which is laudible, because they are also fighting against their own sunken cost fallacy).

This should be familiar to software engineers; “why the requirements were not perfect before I started writing the software” doesn’t work well in real life. In reality as the engineer and the user gain more experience with the system that is gradually emerging, they acquire new participatory knowledge of that system and that causes a change in requirements, in a dynamical, reciprocal fashion. (Which is one of the reasons why waterfall processes are not as popular today for most products). I think the same goes at a higher scale, if not complexity, for these comnplicated machinery big tech builds that is used by billions of people.

Re: YouTube: Community contributions will be discontinued across all channels

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is a random static marketing website for a corporation supposed to put itself into a position where it accepts community translations? How would you vet said translations before going live with them (which would be mandatory) given that you don't speak the language? And who in the world would volunteer their labor for free to do said translations?

It was intended to be a strange mixture of snark, cynicism and sarcasm connecting your described situation with what Google is doing, with the hope of illuminating the different ways people might think about their own work. In your case, describing it as "a random static marketing website for a corporation" more or less shuts down the discussion. In Google's case, while they probably don't see YT in those same terms,…

The context of this particular thread, though, is about why the user interface in an app might not be translated well. I responded by way of example explaining how translations can fall behind in a very similar situation, that of a website.

Neither of these are the same as the YouTube situation, because in the YouTube situation you're dealing with user-contributed content being translated, which is a crucial difference. Community contributions were never about translating the YouTube UI (or god forbid privacy policy, ToS, etc.); they were only ever about users submitting translations of other users' content.

Re: YouTube: Community contributions will be discontinued across all channels

#203

Just noticed that Google Maps translates a lot of German business names into English, which is exactly what I don't want when I’m driving along, looking for their sign. There’s enough “Denglish” (intentional use of English-like terms) in use by Germans themselves that this adds rather than removes confusion for non-native German speakers. For example, “Stoffe Bauer” into “Fabric Farmer” - Bauer is a common family nam…

I'm in canada and on only one device under the same account I constantly get French ads on youtube. My language settings are all English across all my devices, it's the same youtube account, but for some reason, only on the ps4 youtube app, I get French ads. No idea why, i've scoured every setting possible, I don't live in a French speaking part of canada, i've never watched French videos, never given google any indication I can speak French(which I can't), have never turned on any French language settings on the ps4, all language settings across everything is English from what I can tell, I just have no idea.

Re: YouTube: Community contributions will be discontinued across all channels

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some creators I follow have said they wanted to use community translations but didn't because the feature was underdeveloped. Particularly the fact that contributions are anonymous so there's no way to build trust in a particular translator, every translation for every video needs to be scrutinized and they just don't have time. But from Googles beep boop robot analytics perspective they just see that nobody is using…

It's almost like Google's product owners have no idea how to build and maintain comprehensive products. If people aren't using a feature, figure out why and can it if it's not being used because of a lack of interest instead of said feature being poorly implemented or maintained. Does Google talk to anyone outside of their engineering bro culture?

Google Developers video [0] describing exactly how you should speak to users to get feedback: usability tests. This is pretty standard in the UX community. Here's Steve Krug, author of the Amazon top-selling book on web design "Don't Make Me Think," showing how to do it similarly [1].

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YL0xoSmyZI [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTW1yYUqBm8

Edit: added Steve Krug video.

Re: YouTube: Community contributions will be discontinued across all channels

#205
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure they are aware (or at least some people there are aware), especially since it is repeatedly pointed out on the internet. They just might not care.

Google seems to want you to believe they are a Hanlon's Razor Schroedinger's Cat: the two most likely options are A) malice or B) incompetence. Their "well known" motto "Don't Be Evil" would have you believe it must entirely be incompetence, and so would Hanlon's Razor, normally. But with the number of smart people on staff how could they be so incompetent? Is it malice? Should we take Google on their "word" that the…

Did the cat meet its earnings target last quarter?

Re: YouTube: Community contributions will be discontinued across all channels

#206
post #151

What fucking bollocks, community-added subs are an absolute boon for language learning channels. If you go to Francais avec Pierres youtube channel for example, where they post videos covering various things about the French language, you can find translations in a number of langs, it’s a worthwhile exercise to compare community translations with automated translations— there is just no comparison. Why why why must y…

For those like you who are gobsmacked, wondering what you’re missing, here it is:

The scale of YouTube has counterintuitive implications.

The harassment, deceptive self-promotion and trolling misuse of this feature was at such a scale that this feature was doing real harm that wasn’t effectively contained.

This is an issue Youtube has struggled with for years.

So, a feature that causes real harm, and brings real good, and at length they found no solution to the harm: the feature is quite reasonably axed.

And people who rely on the good faith usage of that abusable feature are justifiably disappointed...but we know why they did it.

Re: YouTube: Community contributions will be discontinued across all channels

#207
I'm partly happy and sad at the same time. 90% of the people in the Netherlands speek english and go to universities that are also fully english. When you suddenly see your favorite content with strange dutch translations it makes it worse (for me atleast) I would just have hoped that they would allow individual users to disable the community changes. When translating things there where always a lot of personal touches or words that where on purpose translated to something more funny in the other language. I always had the feeling there really was a person typing those translations. I understand why google would like to automate this. I just hoped that they would allow users to specify if they want to keep the personal translation the automated translation or nothing at al or a mix for example a option to never translate titles.

Re: YouTube: Community contributions will be discontinued across all channels

#208
post #151

What fucking bollocks, community-added subs are an absolute boon for language learning channels. If you go to Francais avec Pierres youtube channel for example, where they post videos covering various things about the French language, you can find translations in a number of langs, it’s a worthwhile exercise to compare community translations with automated translations— there is just no comparison. Why why why must y…

My feeling is that at Google, building something novel (e.g. community contributions) is more important than maintaining something (e.g. dealing with spam/abuse in community contributions). Unless it brings in profit or collects valuable user data, anything that takes developer hours to maintain eventually gets canned. There could be a code silo issue here as well. My understanding is Google dev teams are very mobile…

I don’t think this is a problem specific to google but the software industry in general. Showcasing your skills is a lot harder While you are maintaining something and it’s easier when you are building something new. And since the industry heavily penalises anyone who hasn’t “grown” over the years, the devs have a big incentive to keep building new things/Be involved in high visibility projects rather than be in a maintenance project.

Re: YouTube: Community contributions will be discontinued across all channels

#209
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My feeling is that at Google, building something novel (e.g. community contributions) is more important than maintaining something (e.g. dealing with spam/abuse in community contributions). Unless it brings in profit or collects valuable user data, anything that takes developer hours to maintain eventually gets canned. There could be a code silo issue here as well. My understanding is Google dev teams are very mobile…

I hear this explanation a lot. What I don't get is how Google, a company known for being exceptionally clever in how it manages engineers, hasn't realized that their organizational structure causes this sort of build-and-abandon pattern. In any case, the rest of us at large shouldn't have to suffer just because Google can't figure out how to build meaningfully long-lasting services.

Google has no incentive to improve this. Their revenue is unaffected by all of this.

Re: YouTube: Community contributions will be discontinued across all channels

#210
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a random question about peertube hope you guys dont mind. Can I run a background task on my machine to help in some way with making the content of some instance more available to people, or would I have to run my own instance?

I think you can torrent the video and they should then also be served from your machine.

From this FAQ it looks like you may be able to as long as you torrent from something that is WebRTC friendly.

https://github.com/Chocobozzz/PeerTube/blob/develop/FAQ.md#s...

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