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Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

bbc.com

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Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#201

Post by violetyellow »

Security flaw, sometimes may not root in technology side, but politics side.

China is treating everything they own as a politics weapon now. 5G contract is a perfect weapon in this view. Telecom infrastructure is huge, and almost monoplied by the base infrastructure builder due to compatibility issues. Once Huawei finished the 5G base infrastructure, China can coerce UK by attach extra terms for maintaining, upgrading or selling 5G equipments.

China has already used this approach on loans of asia investment bank. The countries which supports HK Security Law coincidentally matches with the countries which receives loans from investment bank.

There may be more under water. Some may already exposed: (China's evil virus plan) https://www.foxnews.com/world/chinese-virologist-coronavirus...

Some may still remains to be conspiracy theory: China increased production of hydroxychloroquine, in their reports (http://tn.china-embassy.org/chn/dtxws/t1787078.htm), they already used Chloroquine in treating their patients. However, WHO, FDA and even Lancet banned or announced inefficiency of hydroxychloroquine, and people died from this misinformation. What role did China play remains suspicious and mysterious.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#202

Post by disgu »

jaekash wrote: post #184
enitihas wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You aren't helping your case by citing the Supermicro article, which was denied by both Amazon and Apple, led to widespread criticism of Bloomberg, and no source came forward.

Corporations getting rich off the CCP's action siding with the CCP is hardly surprising.

Bloomberg is not to be trusted when it comes to technology news. Seriously, they're absolutely incompetent. They called Telnet a secret backdoor. Their articles about China are annoying because they're either without any tangible proof whatsoever or simply factually wrong.

There are other, better sources.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#203

Post by tridentlead »

londons_explore wrote: post #170
jaekash wrote: post #152

And we already know China has been backdooring other equipment: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-h... So yes, this is a small victory in a massive war.

The cost of that victory, according to the BBC, is a 1 year delay in the rollout of 5G tech. That's a pretty large economic cost. Bob can't watch his medical lectures on the train, so ends up behind in class, Mary's company looses a contract to a foreign competitor because she got frustrated with her bad VPN and didn't read over the bid one last time, Fred couldn't afford the cost of the new 5G contracts so didn't ge…

Well I would call that about 0% of the impact of the COVID lockdowns so I think we will adapt and overcome.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#204

Post by mpfundstein »

londons_explore wrote: post #170
jaekash wrote: post #152

And we already know China has been backdooring other equipment: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-h... So yes, this is a small victory in a massive war.

The cost of that victory, according to the BBC, is a 1 year delay in the rollout of 5G tech. That's a pretty large economic cost. Bob can't watch his medical lectures on the train, so ends up behind in class, Mary's company looses a contract to a foreign competitor because she got frustrated with her bad VPN and didn't read over the bid one last time, Fred couldn't afford the cost of the new 5G contracts so didn't ge…

i run my whole office on 4g (amsterdam, europe). it works super nicely. in fact often better than my wifi at home...

4g is everywhere in NL. it just works great whereever you are. so i really wonder where the immediate need for 5g is.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#205

Post by Barrin92 »

Karunamon wrote: post #193
Barrin92 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

nobody is saying that that is worse than literal concentration camps, what people are saying is that failures to live up to racial justice at home weaken your ability to authentically criticize violations abroad, and that's a very valid point. And as far as communications infrastructure is concerned it's relevant too. In countries like Germany or Eastern Europe in particular the behaviour of espionage among allies ov…

> weaken your ability to authentically criticize violations abroad It does no such thing. Being a hypocrite does not impact the correctness or incorrectness of what you're saying (which is why the tu quoque fallacy is a fallacy), doubly so when we're talking about entirely different categories of abuses that invalidate the hypocrisy charge anyways.

correctness isn't what's relevant in (geo)politics. What matters is being able to influence others and get your interests across. And on that front being a hypocrite matters, both domestically as well as internationally.

Listing off fallacies is great in internet discussions, but it's not how the world works. To be honest it's also not really how internet discussions work any more because everyone's grown sick of it.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#206

Post by rashkov »

Barrin92 wrote: post #155
rashkov wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding your first point, yes, that’s an interesting take. Regarding the criticism of the US, yes you’re probably correct, but this is a “what about” argument that doesn’t really aid the discussion in my opinion.

Whataboutism gets brought out too fast to dismiss discussion. Democratic systems project their values by demonstrating them. A democratic state that cannot show that its values work will have no ability to demand of others to emulate it. In that context the failures of the US (as it is de-facto the standard-bearer of political liberalism in a broad sense), have real influence. When the Chinese look around the world a…

The US has certainly lost a lot of moral standing, and yes it makes it harder to criticize others, and it strengthens autocratic hands abroad to be able to point to the US' failures.

That said, the parent poster isn't the US government, but a private citizen raising a valid criticism of another country. So why can't it stand on its own, without a big show of self-criticism first? Can we not criticize others until our own house is in order? Once that happens, the discussion turns into an argument over moral equivalence or lack thereof -- ie. "the US' crimes are just as bad as China's!" versus "No these things are of completely different degrees!".

This line of argument quickly becomes tiring and, I think it completely muddles the original point, which is often what is intended when hurling "what about...!" into the discussion.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#207

Post by Waterfall »

gruez wrote: post #195
Waterfall wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm wondering how much worst it is since we already can track people pretty well with cellular data now. Sorry if I didn't make that clear, seems like they can already do all those things. How much worst can it be?

Its the difference between knowing which neighborhood you're in and which street or mabye even which house you're in.

But you can already tell what house you're in with triangulation, and even the room.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#208

Post by rich_sasha »

yodelshady wrote: post #110
rich_sasha wrote: post #38

If this is just Realpolitik/hardware independence, fine, but security..? Any worthwhile Internet traffic should be encrypted in 2020, and if it isn’t, Huawei probably isn’t the most immediate concern. And if it is encrypted, does it really matter who is listening? Comments welcome, I know zilch about telecoms hardware.

You can't encrypt "metadata" that the machine needs to know to do its job, and with enough of that, you can de-anonymise any public posters. And you'll have metadata on (some of) their contacts too. Plus, if it's your tower, you can just switch it off, at an opportune moment.

Ok, that’s fair enough

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#209

Post by Waterfall »

cptskippy wrote: post #194
Waterfall wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US seems to be stuck in the 1950s, with much of the infrastructure and the attitudes in a similar state of stasis. The US however hasn't lost its role model status, despite embarrassments like Bush (unless your definition is different). The petrodollar is just as powerful as ever, the dollar is the most powerful currency still, and US hedgemony is just as powerful.

The US government is stagnated by politics and the current political culture focuses on screwing over the opposing party above all else. On the surface it seems like the grumpy old men in charge are just being stubborn and exercising their power to ensure their opponents lose, but if you look at the legislation that does get passed you start to see something very different. Most of the legislation passed revolves aro…

I don't think it's that cut and dry. If people are being oppressed, why don't they leave? The innovations and benefits must outweigh the problems. I'm happy to be a US citizen, with excellent buying power.

What product is worst and more expensive that you have in mind?

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#210

Post by mpfundstein »

lihan wrote: post #89
room271 wrote: post #9

This kind of thing is going to play out a lot over the next few years. It's a tough question: how to marry globalisation with the political realities. When China was very poor, it didn't really matter, or perhaps the assumption was that China would liberalise more quickly than it has. But China, while increasingly mature economically, has not developed proper civil society, human rights, freedom of expression, democr…

I disagree. Reports about China from many western media tend to exaggerate things about China, mostly influenced by western politics, not good at all. Also, western media tend to report selective facts to only show things they want people to hear and see. The right to life is the first clause of human right, which I see they are violated in many western countries. They refuse to treat the poor and old. Do you hear Ch…

comments like this make me wanna reach 500 karma so that i can downvote :-)

man are you REALLY and seriously arguing that a single party empire system is better than democracy? dude please. It might be better if you like to live in your bee hive and play your assigned role. But what if you are different? what if you want to be something else than society forces you to be? what theb? you are screwed my friend.

and thats why i happily accept.that democracy might be slower and more expensive. because its for EVERYONE. in theory though ;-)

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