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Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

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Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#201

Post by komali2 »

zosima wrote: post #189
komali2 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They... Do...? That's why an empowerment movement might focus on Latinx in general, and as you go more local you might find some of the same people at the state Latinx rally as you do at a city's Cuban American resource exchange group or whatever. The point is that self-sorting doesn't by definition mean that humans are inherently racist or that it's natural/ethical to oppress minority populations, which I take as on…

I don't see anybody except you conflate natural and ethical. So the cubans now live side by side with mexicans? And both they and mexicans/south americans self-identify as hispanics/latinx and not cubans, mexicans or something else? And having a Cuban American cultural exchange is just an oddity of history? And is now more the latinx american cultural exchange?

The thread is being lost - what exactly is the point you're trying to make?

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#202

Post by komali2 »

memling wrote: post #199
komali2 wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Denying the existence of POC and their oppressed status in America is more than just "not supporting BLM," it's a denial of the foundation of their reason for existing.

> Denying the existence of POC and their oppressed status in America is more than just "not supporting BLM," it's a denial of the foundation of their reason for existing. Acknowledging the personhood of people of color is not synonymous with supporting BLM. One might broadly support the ends of BLM while being uncomfortable with the means.

> One might broadly support the ends of BLM while being uncomfortable with the means.

I sense a conflation of the statement "Black Lives Matter" with the movement "Black Lives Matter" with a third, completely unrelated concept, that being lootings and property destruction. Are you insinuating that the people who want the world to know that black lives matter are the same that are looting target? Despite extensive arrests showing these people to be agent provocateurs and white supremacists?

Furthermore, it's not really accurate to even say "the Black Lives Matters," as if it's an organization. If anything, it's unfortunately extremely disorganized, with extremely disparate groups and goals (i.e. defund vs abolish vs reform police arguments), almost complete lack of a central, trustworthy 501(c) to donate to, and lack of leadership. The politics of the movement are also extremely disparate - communists, anarchists, libertarians, pro-gun anti-gun, Muslim, Christian, non-religious. It's all over the place.

The only unifying thing behind people who say "Black Lives Matter" is the belief that Black Lives Matter. That's why to say "uncomfortable with the means" doesn't mean you're uncomfortable with, say, someone burning down a police station, it's more precarious, or you end up like the White Moderate that MLK warned against as the greatest threat to civil rights.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#203

Post by komali2 »

staticautomatic wrote: post #194
komali2 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You assume that the unconscious biases are less powerful than the conscious ones, which may not be true (I don't believe it is). A personal example - I "treated everyone equally" for a long time, and then I was brought to be aware of the "don't ignore color" perspective. I started paying active attention and realized I was talking over women in meetings regularly. Crazy regularly. I had no idea. And then I noticed th…

I’m not assuming anything. I’m merely pointing out that both scenarios described had the same desired outcome.

In reality I disagree. If I "never saw color," I'd never have the uncomfortable conversations that led to me recognizing and changing unconscious behavior.

The point is, one scenario doesn't actually reflect reality, it reflects an ideal that doesn't exist because humans are sloppy.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#204

Post by o-__-o »

forgot_user1234 wrote: post #139
o-__-o wrote: post #103

All of these comments and I’m left wondering if I’m the only black person commenting in this thread. I’ve been passed up for promotions, fired, and hired based solely on my color. I keep moving on but y’all it’s been 20 years of this. And it just started getting a little better in the past 3 years but is a total gamble based on where you work. In my current Fortune 500 job, I was hired for my expertise then was moved…

> I’ve been passed up for promotions, fired, and hired based solely on my color "solely". It's easy to pin point a problem on others. This might come in handy - https://twitter.com/shreyas/status/1276956836856393728?s=20

I would like to respond to you directly. Another comment that was downvoted said something very similar.

I do not blame race on everything. Numerous jobs I have been hired solely because of my skills. I have been fired because I slacked off too hard. I have missed promotions because I could only see my positives and not my negatives. I have the experience I do from working at many different IT shops.

Part of what happened recently has to do with the fact that the company makes diversity a key deciding factor. My previous roles show a clear footpath in the direction they desired. To have someone of lesser skill promoted in front of me and then not spend any time to groom me to move up as well is a huge slap to my face. I gave up my revenue generating business to take this opportunity, so please forgive me if I’m a bit jaded at this point.

I know what I can do, and I never look a gift horse in the mouth. I am blessed to be employed right now.. but bet your ass as soon as this virus passes I’m out and will be back to schmoozing investors. Probably with better results than my last 3 years combined (EDIT: and very likely because of company XYZ being on my resume. But change needs to start from the top and I’m not gonna hang around forever to wait. I’m rambling now so it’s probably time to get off the internet)

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#205

Post by tartoran »

octaveguin wrote: post #33
joshribakoff wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I try really hard to ignore color One thing I was taught in anti-bias trainings at big tech companies was that trying to "ignore" color helps perpetuate biases. It is important that if an under represented co-worker speaks up, you pay extra attention, explicitly ensure their idea is credited to them, be vocal when you agree even if you otherwise would not, help others to understand their contributions, etc. Biases…

Isn't that horribly patronizing? I'd feel offended if someone treated me with kid gloves based on my skin color.

> Isn't that horribly patronizing?

Not a racist but am torn between ignoring race - wr’re all people stance - and the behaviour described as patronizing. My conclusion is that nobody has a clue how to deal with this mess. We need to have some sort of clear guidelines on what is best tto do in these cases without offending nor patronizing. Im an Eastern European immigrant to the US and in my US education it has been drilled into me that there is no such thing as race, we’re all related and so on while emphasizing on different cultures. I took African American studies and did learn a great deal of injustice at the expense of blacks in America. But it seems I didn’t learn how to behave properly. What am I doing wrong? Should we set clear guidelines or leave them ambiguous?

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#206

Post by jpindar »

ed25519FUUU wrote: post #27

The author hits on something really important. Many people who entered the field 10+ years ago are people who had computers as children. If you’re 30+ right now, that means your family had some means, because computers were very expensive up until pretty recently. Hopefully we’ll see the pipe really getting wide now, and many more people from many different backgrounds entering this excellent field.

Nope. I bought all my own computers with my paper route & Dunkin Donuts job money. I don't remember how much it cost, but I don't recall it being a big deal financially.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#207

Post by bJGVygG7MQVF8c »

komali2 wrote: post #152
xfitm3 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't want to work with white colleagues who are biased against non-white people. I don't want to work with people who are biased against white people. I support equality and I genuinely want to see people treated fairly but I can't help but take offense to the notion that because I'm white I am less or should feel guilty.

Allyship for POC doesn't imply bias against white people. Acknowledging and fighting against systemic racism doesn't imply that all white people should feel universal guilt for their very real privilege. Raising others up doesn't require pushing anyone down. Well, anyone that isn't in a white hood, anyway.

> Allyship for POC doesn't imply bias against white people.

Sure, in theory. In practice, bias against whites exists, some of it catalyzed by woke ideology. (By woke logic) White-presenting people are really the only ones with standing to speak to such bias in their own lives.

> Well, anyone that isn't in a white hood, anyway.

Ah yes, the IRL downvote: call someone a racist / Nazi / fascist / Klansman.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#208

Post by darkerside »

solzhenitsyn wrote: post #182
darkerside wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for speaking up. I don't know how to fix any of this, but I do know that we need to value each other's experiences, and that can't happen without us sharing them for what they are. Hard as it is for you, and easy as it is to say for me, I do believe your uncomfortable experiences are changing things for the better. Every VC that hurries out of a room may not have invested in your company, but you just pushed a…

Do you want equal opportunities or equal outcomes? One does not beget the other.

I don't believe either is possible. Life is way too complicated to guarantee anything. But I think everyone agrees we should strive to correct significant levels of unfairness in either opportunity or outcome. We just may disagree on what constitutes significance.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#209

Post by [deleted] »

Klinky wrote: post #72
RhysU wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The behavior you prescribe is itself a bias. Can we please treat individuals as individuals instead of narrowly viewing others through whatever lenses we carry?

This sounds kind of like "all workers matter", which ignores the current and historical challenges gender/race minorities have experienced in certain fields of work. If you are the majority it can be very easy to be blind to the plight of the minority. "I see a black man or a woman got hired, so things must be fine." I don't think there is harm in making extra effort to ensure inclusion of minorities within the group…

[deleted]

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#210

Post by dafoex »

komali2 wrote: post #96
dafoex wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is great and all, but as someone who's been patronised in this way for being the autistic kid, I'd rather you just treat me like a human being. I've learned my coping strategies, I don't need you to cope for me.

I'm sorry you were patronized. Nobody likes being patronized. You may have learned to cope but not all coping is equal and not everyone can. Again, the argument isn't for baby talk. It's for adult strategies for adult issues. Be it ensuring that a woman can have her voice heard in a meeting or an autistic employee can have a desk in a non-busy part of the office. Non-patronizing, reasonable, and aware methods to impr…

This is kind of what I'm getting at, though. You've just made the assumption I'm hypersensive to noise, and while that does sometimes bother me, the thing that causes me sensory overload is heat. I can solve this fairly easily because I have a reasonably quiet desk fan that doesn't take a lot of space and can be powered off of USB if needed. Please don't fight for me over things I can solve myself.

What I do struggle with is being able to get a word in edgeways during group conversation, and that can be solved quite easily with a good team leader inviting quiet voices to speak. This is where I need the most help because real life isn't a neatly nested series of conversation threads where replies accurately link back to the quoted text, life is life and life is a mess.

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