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Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

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Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an instance of what I described in my above comment. "STOP BUYING MASKS" is not "Masks don't work," especially given the rest of the context of the statement where he's saying they're important to protect high-exposure roles healthcare providers. Which means he's also saying they work. "They are not effective in preventing the general public" might be reasonably interpreted as "masks don't work", but given th…

When one says that "masks are not effective", it's literally the definition of "masks don't work." Please don't try to weasel out of it by trying to argue basic definitions of words. That's like Bill Clinton arguing over the definition of what "is" means to try to save himself. Just admit that you're wrong and move on. It's clear that the message in the early stages of the pandemic was that "all masks didn't work, bu…

> Since then, it has come out that masks are actually extremely effective in preventing spread.

No it hasn't. Show me the research.

> "all masks didn't work, but you should save it for the health care workers". The absurd contradiction

It's not an absurd contradiction. A member of the public walks around and is only going to meet a few people with covid-19, and hopefully they are pre-symptomatic (because if they have symptoms they need to stay at home)

A healthcare professional is stuck in a room with symptomatic people, often in close contact. And they're not wearing a cloth mask or fluid resistant surgical mask, they're wearing a mask that has to be fitted to them. They have training on how to put it on and take it off. They also wear gloves, a gown, and a face shield or eye protection. They have running water and soap, and they have alcohol handgel. For fluid resistant surgical masks they take them off and use a new one for each patient.

One patient in one ICU bay will have 30 pairs of gloves used by staff per day.

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#202
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure all of that is still true. In some cases, for some people, wearing a mask can be neutral or even net-negative. Maybe we learned enough to find that for the population at large wearing masks is better than not, but it's still a trade off.

Please elaborate on these cases in which masks have supposedly a net negative effect on the wearer.

It's in the above tweet. Your mask is by definition contaminated (that's why you wear it, to catch the contamination), and many people fiddle with their masks. They then rub their eyes, or they touch their mouth.

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#203

If you are worried about a private company "censoring" your speech, you should take this as a sign that you've allowed said company to get far too big. Restricting private speech by increasing the reach of government to limit it will only backfire in the end if your goal is freedom of speech. The right approach for free speech is smaller companies AND smaller government.

> If you are worried about a private company "censoring" your speech, you should take this as a sign that you've allowed said company to get far too big.

That makes sense, but what if many private companies agree to censor something? It doesn't have to be a shady deal in a smoke filled room, maybe just everyone depends on advertisers, and advertisers don't want to be associated with some message.

I think the right way is creating and popularizing spaces for speech that don't lend themselves to censorship, but somehow mitigate the problems of non-censorship, such as astroturfing. The internet is a wonderful foundation for such spaces, we're very lucky, but there's a lot of work to do.

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#204
post #187
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, let's (not be tedious and) agree that the reason healthcare workers wear masks is to prevent airborne infections, especially of SARS-Cov-2. Now clearly your first and second points contradict each other. Furthermore the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. Cf. Peer reviewed studies, or lack thereof, supporting the 6 ft "social" distancing protocol and, up until recently, the use of parachutes wh…

> agree that the reason healthcare workers wear masks is to prevent airborne infections, especially of SARS-Cov-2. There's a big difference between a healthcare professional spending time in close contact with symptomatic people and a member of the public spending time walking round a supermarket. And healthcare professionals do not "wear masks", they wear a full set of PPE including gloves, gown, mask, eye protectio…

Healthcare professionals absolutely do wear masks. Words have meanings.

Let's make our minds up about whether the lack of papers supporting mask-wearing against the virus is reason not to wear their them.

Also I'm earnestly interested in your source on the distancing evidence.

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#205
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an instance of what I described in my above comment. "STOP BUYING MASKS" is not "Masks don't work," especially given the rest of the context of the statement where he's saying they're important to protect high-exposure roles healthcare providers. Which means he's also saying they work. "They are not effective in preventing the general public" might be reasonably interpreted as "masks don't work", but given th…

Even with this very charitable interpretation, he was still completely incorrect about their effectiveness for stopping public spread, was he not?

No.

There's no evidence that masks do anything at all to prevent public spread.

People point to countries that had successful anti-covid work and use of masks, but they're missing all the other work those countries did around social distancing and track and trace.

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#206
post #202
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please elaborate on these cases in which masks have supposedly a net negative effect on the wearer.

It's in the above tweet. Your mask is by definition contaminated (that's why you wear it, to catch the contamination), and many people fiddle with their masks. They then rub their eyes, or they touch their mouth.

Then let's solve that problem!

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was an article on the front page yesterday about the retraction of one of the hydroxychloroquine papers; all of the comments on the original article were of the "they don't want you to know the truth" sort. You cannot win against true believers.

> You cannot win against true believers I'm a true believer in the drug's seventy year safety record when given as a prophylactic for malaria prevention millions of times and over the counter in many places.

I think you are missing the point.

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#208

It's gonna get flagged again, I can feel it. What I love about this place is everybody is so open minded.

It doesn't get flagged. To be fair to HN, they do want just tech news. Most COIVD and riot posts are weighted down. It looks like it takes them 3~4 times as many votes to rise as other articles. I can understand them wanting to keep HN focused on tech. It's a good distraction during this. But when we do occasionally see these posts before they get flushed to page 4 or 5, I love the fact that the comments are filled w…

> Reddit is the ultimate cesspool of extreme-left right now in almost every city/state/country sub. It's absolutely insane and people who do not agree with official narratives are constantly downvoted to oblivion.

I thought I was the only person thinking this. It really is scary how much mono-thinking is going on in the world

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#209
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Who said masks don't work? What I recall people saying is: > * most masks provide marginal protection to the wearer > * the masks that provide effective protection should be saved for those in situations where they need them (and can be knowledgeably used) > * most people probably don't need those masks" yup, moreover, masks are marginal on top of other measures, most notably distancing. masks can make a differenc…

It may be similarly dogmatic, but there are degrees of correctness, and a world where everyone wears masks all the time is one with with much less coronavirus than one where no one except medical professionals wear them.

> a world where everyone wears masks all the time is one with with much less coronavirus

You don't know that.

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