Related ongoing thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23261394
Can we consolidate?
It seems like they're divergent enough to keep separate. Last I checked, at least.
Zuckerberg says employees moving out of Silicon Valley may face pay cuts
201–210 of 233 posts
Re: Zuckerberg says employees moving out of Silicon Valley may face pay cuts
#202Interesting. Thought Facebook didn't screw over its own employees
seems they are getting inspired by Amazon
Re: Zuckerberg says employees moving out of Silicon Valley may face pay cuts
#203[deleted]
Re: Zuckerberg says employees moving out of Silicon Valley may face pay cuts
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
If the company was hemorrhaging money on employee salaries by being based in SF then why wouldn't they simply move the company somewhere else?
Greater supply of employees, and potentially greater attraction TO employees. Sure, they have to "import" employees, but importing 10% of the workforce in the Bay Area at X cost is apparently more appealing than importing 98% of employees to Tulsa at Y cost. (Relatedly; Tulsa's not exactly a small place, but if you think the influence of "big tech" is bad in a larger metro like the Bay Area, I'd HATE to see what it w…
Tulsa is not geographically limited and has enough empty space for practically unlimited build out (similar to bay area or LA in 50 years ago). Tech in Tulsa will cause construction boom but not bay area house prices.
Re: Zuckerberg says employees moving out of Silicon Valley may face pay cuts
#205This is one of the things that's always bothered me. Let's say you hire me for your company in San Francisco and pay me $150K. You've made a calculation: my value to the company is greater than $150K, and $150K is a price you're willing to pay to leverage that value. In other words, the company will (eventually) make more than $150K per year off my contributions to the company. But now if I decide to move to Tulsa, O…
This is a fundamental Microeconomics supply-demand pricing question: Do you sell an item based upon the cost to produce it, or the price customers are willing to pay for it? Employment is no different. There is a struggle between buyers of your employment, and you (the seller) of your time/expertise. If those prices overlap, then there is a spectrum of possible transaction prices that can occur. As you can imagine, i…
This is exactly right. I'm surprised that so many people, who are otherwise highly educated and intelligent, struggle with this concept.
There's no universal rule of "fairness" saying how much a company should pay you. It's not dictated by COL calculations and logical questions of value.
The company looks at you and your competitors (alternative candidates), and puts forward a number they think is high enough for you to accept, but not so high that they could snag an "equivalent" candidate for a lower price.
You win that battle not by whinging about COL adjustments, but by eliminating your alternatives (metaphorically speaking, of course). If the company truly needs what you do, and you're the only one who can do it, then you set the terms.
Re: Zuckerberg says employees moving out of Silicon Valley may face pay cuts
#206Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Not everyone can move to optimize their relative adjusted income"-- Yes and not everyone can get married, and have a partner to share the load with either. So does that mean a bachelor and a married man should be paid different salaries? Not everyone can find the time to run a side business. So should those who can be penalized? You pay your employees what they are worth to the company and forget entirely about what…
Single and married folks with families get paid differently. We pay ~3-4x more for healthcare for people with families than individuals. You've sort of dismissed my point, though. The dilemma is that salary choices create friction within companies. It's not as simple as "pay what it takes to get someone" and "it's none of your business" because it does, in fact, have repercussions on how well a company works.
> Single and married folks with families get paid differently. We pay ~3-4x more for healthcare for people with families than individuals.
They get paid differently, or they cost their employer differently?
Re: Zuckerberg says employees moving out of Silicon Valley may face pay cuts
#207People should be warned that working remotely has been career suicide for as long as I've been in tech. Being "out of sight, out of mind" from management generally means you're passed over for promotions, and often the first to get cut during layoffs. It's just human nature. It's easier to layoff the person that's been working from across the country (or another country) than it is to layoff the person at the desk ne…
Even if this were true in the past, this would certainly be changed with the more level playing field of more and more people working remotely.
Re: Zuckerberg says employees moving out of Silicon Valley may face pay cuts
#208This feels like a "welp we need to cut some pay, let's see who takes the bait". Cost of living should not dictate your value to the company. If you're an engineer supporting x number of users worth y dollars, it literally does not change what you bring to the table whether you do the job in SF or Birmingham. Yes, they could hire cheaper in Birmingham, but they can't hire _you_. If you have a proven track record of do…
> Cost of living should not dictate your value to the company. Your "value" to the company depends a lot on your compensation and your compensation depends on the marketplace for other developers with similar skills.
I struggle to see the mental leap many are making here.
Are you stating that cost of living impacts your skill level? In some cases that may be true but I think for what most are discussing here the causation would be the other way.
Growing up in a poor area may effect your skill level but moving as an adult from a high COL to low COL area should have minimal impact.
To me it makes more sense that each developer would command the salary that corresponds to their skills, and then adjust their COL in order to be comfortable.
Re: Zuckerberg says employees moving out of Silicon Valley may face pay cuts
#209This is one of the things that's always bothered me. Let's say you hire me for your company in San Francisco and pay me $150K. You've made a calculation: my value to the company is greater than $150K, and $150K is a price you're willing to pay to leverage that value. In other words, the company will (eventually) make more than $150K per year off my contributions to the company. But now if I decide to move to Tulsa, O…
Compensation can be structured with both fixed and variable components.
The fixed portion covers basic needs: Shelter, food, transportation, healthcare, etc...
The variable portion is typically performance based. Usually RSUs or stock. Could also be a cash bonus.
Moving to OK will reduce basic needs and fixed comp, but variable comp could remain unchanged.
More employees living in OK could mean more profit, hence more cash bonus.
Re: Zuckerberg says employees moving out of Silicon Valley may face pay cuts
#210Earlier quoted context omitted.
>I'm not really picturing THAT many brilliant developers that fall under the bucket of: a) really smart and able to pass FAANG interviews b) not willing to relocate if they did get a huge offer What about anyone that wants to own a home before they are 40? Even on FAANG salaries its very difficult to buy when millionaires are snatching up fixer uppers for $1M+ all cash.
Every person I work with is under 40 and everyone that wants to own a home, does. SF and NYC are not the only tech hubs in the US.
I'm confused - are you saying you work with people under 40 within SF and/or NYC and they all own homes? I'm pretty surprised...