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Shopify Goes Digital by Default

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Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#201

Post by Traster »

djohnston wrote: post #36
clivestaples wrote: post #27

Sometimes I wonder how long "permanent" will be for these decisions. Off topic, but if the permanent work-from-home trend continues, I cannot imagine what is going to happen to commercial real estate. Convert to residential? Is this equilibrium needed for overheated housing markets?

That's an interesting point, I would guess they'd have no choice but to switch to condos or flats. But then if everyone is working anywhere why on earth would you live in SF. And why would companies hire in SF if they can pick up comparable talent at a fractional price from Romania. Lots of questions!

I think you might see companies considering hiring people who live in Bakersfield, Sacramento, maybe even Nevada instead of San Francisco, but there's a vast difference between "usually working from home", and "Needs an international flight to get to the office" and "Literally works in a time zone that doesn't share any office hours with their boss".

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#202

Post by nchelluri »

ARandomerDude wrote: post #181
dan_quixote wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

| I've found that advocates of WFH are mostly motivated by that's what they want to do more than anything else. I've heard endless people state that WFH productivity is through the roof with absolutely no evidence. And lets not pretend that we can accurately measure productivity of software devs - we've all been down this road with agile.

Perhaps if we measured lines of code... ;-)

> If I had more time, I would have written a shorter letter.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#203

Post by tomashertus »

cletus wrote: post #141

So I've now been WFH for 2 months and honestly I hate it. Work was already flexible enough such that if you wanted to WFH you could. By convention, people would most often WFH on Wednesdays. I liked this timing of people doing it at the same time. But communication and collaboration is just much harder work remote and you can't change my mind. I'm sure you can work hard to make it almost as good but it's never going…

I feel genuinely sorry for all the freshmen who enter a job market at this time. I can't imagine having my first full-time job remote only.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#204

Post by guptaneil »

cletus wrote: post #141

So I've now been WFH for 2 months and honestly I hate it. Work was already flexible enough such that if you wanted to WFH you could. By convention, people would most often WFH on Wednesdays. I liked this timing of people doing it at the same time. But communication and collaboration is just much harder work remote and you can't change my mind. I'm sure you can work hard to make it almost as good but it's never going…

Those are all perfectly valid points. However, I don't think WFH advocates are claiming that working from home is definitively better. Both options have different trade-offs.

You're right that collaboration is much easier in person, even with the latest remote work technology. But could we offset that with companies that have monthly/quarterly offsites instead? What if they invest their office budget into helping people build better home offices? Ship snacks directly to employees or let them expense meals/snacks?

The worst thing a lot of companies will do is jump into fully remote without rethinking how their culture works. This is not just a way to save money by getting rid of your office. That money has to be allocated differently to make up for the differences.

I 100% agree that mixed in-perform/WFH is the worst of both worlds.

Finally, I would note the last 2 months have been very abnormal for everyone, and it's been nothing like WFH under normal situations. I would wait to when things "return to normal" before making a decision on how you feel about WFH.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#205

Post by zuppy »

kjakm wrote: post #173
cletus wrote: post #141

So I've now been WFH for 2 months and honestly I hate it. Work was already flexible enough such that if you wanted to WFH you could. By convention, people would most often WFH on Wednesdays. I liked this timing of people doing it at the same time. But communication and collaboration is just much harder work remote and you can't change my mind. I'm sure you can work hard to make it almost as good but it's never going…

>> I of course miss the meals and snacks. I'm not trying to be facetious - you seriously can't provide your own meals and snacks working from home? >> Many people who work at these companies live in big cities where they don't have huge amounts of space and it's not conducive to being productivity, particularly if you live with other people, if you can't get some form of separation. Do you live in that space because…

> I'm not trying to be facetious - you seriously can't provide your own meals and snacks working from home?

for me, at least, it's about the contact with other people and the talk during the lunch break. face to face human contact. i honestly can not comprehend how can people wish to be isolated... but maybe it's something different with me.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#206

Post by Majromax »

dmode wrote: post #77

People have commented the impact of this shift on SF/NYC etc, but based on this announcement the impact on smaller tech hubs will be even more devastating. Why would you now open a office in a smaller tech hub when you can hire someone from anywhere ? The impact of this in Canada can be huge

> Why would you now open a office in a smaller tech hub when you can hire someone from anywhere ? The impact of this in Canada can be huge

Why not? The wage differential will still apply: why hire someone remotely from SF when you can hire someone remotely from Ottawa at 70% the wage?

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#207

Post by CyanLite2 »

It's not just real-estate to consider. You need security guards, facility/maintenance personnel. Utility costs, including raised flooring for your in-house networking/data center. Phones for each desks, office furniture. You need Becky down in Accounting to be the person ordering the office furniture for new hires. Sally in IT keeps the VoIP phones working in-office. Bob in Networking runs cables between floors so Marketing can have better WiFi and uses top of the line Cisco WiFi repeaters. Sam in the Maintenance department assembles those sweet mesh chairs that Becky orders and also makes sure the vending machines and break room is stocked full of snacks. Karen, the contracts vendor just signed a new long-term agreement with a local ISP for full gigabit fiber connectivity to the office.

In reality, it's probably 3x savings on top of just real-estate.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#208

Post by dragosmocrii »

benbristow wrote: post #164

If I had a really nice detached home with a wife & children then working from home permanently would be the dream. I don't. I live in a flat and live by myself. The only physical people I talk to are cashiers or delivery drivers. If your life is further on than others or you have a nightmare capital commute then I can see WFH being the way forward. But personally I like to go to the office for social interactions and…

I feel you. I took a job this year for a fraction of what I earn as self-employed, just because I wanted to go out and be among people. I was later laid off because of the virus, but it was nice to go to the office, talk to people face to face, have lunches together. Now, back to being self employed, I like it more, but I think I'll be looking for some coworking spaces.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#209

Post by ponker »

dan_quixote wrote: post #166
cletus wrote: post #141

So I've now been WFH for 2 months and honestly I hate it. Work was already flexible enough such that if you wanted to WFH you could. By convention, people would most often WFH on Wednesdays. I liked this timing of people doing it at the same time. But communication and collaboration is just much harder work remote and you can't change my mind. I'm sure you can work hard to make it almost as good but it's never going…

| I've found that advocates of WFH are mostly motivated by that's what they want to do more than anything else. I've heard endless people state that WFH productivity is through the roof with absolutely no evidence. And lets not pretend that we can accurately measure productivity of software devs - we've all been down this road with agile.

Here are some numbers... I work at a FAANG and 28-day commits in my division (~5K engineers) are down ~3% from February. Not an exact science but some real data I just pulled for you.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#210

Post by jackhiggs »

newfeatureok wrote: post #90

Remote-first is the future. I'm not sure why anyone would be against it. No one is forcing you to work from home. From a compliance and operations perspective a remote-first company is effectively forced to do a lot of things many companies do not or will not undertake: - Make meetings accessible to everyone - Communicate more effectively and transparently internal to the organization (and even externally, for the ad…

Because it will destroy the real economy in cities.
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