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Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

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Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#201

Post by notJim »

pnathan wrote: post #84
josegonzalez wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're quite wrong. GitX is available at https://github.com/brotherbard/gitx/downloads (Get the experimental branch) Git Tower is available at http://www.git-tower.com/ Textmate has a GIT Bundle at https://github.com/jcf/git-tmbundle (It's quite good, but maybe not for designers). And Giggle ( http://live.gnome.org/giggle ). Windows is the only OS lacking a good client, but I use GitX for Mac every day, as do the les…

Yes, I just picked up git for Windows, and it is atrociously unusable. Brutally atrocious. It's not like Windows is a popular operating system - git shouldn't support it as a first-class citizen. ;)

git gui works wells for me on Windows with msysgit. It's ugly, and there are a good number of small issues, but it definitely provides a reasonable user experience.

And of course, the command line option through msysgit is great.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#202

Post by GeneralMaximus »

nnutter wrote: post #93
Andrex wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny you mention GIMP, that's one OSS program that needs a UI refresh badly.

I have not really seen any evidence of GIMP being that poor of a UI. The biggest complaint is the multi-window interface for which single-window mode is currently in alpha and should be out in a few months or so.

Which is strange because any app that can operate on more than one document at the same time opens a separate window for each document on OS X. Even Photoshop. This works well on OS X because of how OS X manages applications. Let's for a moment consider GIMP if it was a native OS X application.

First, to switch between different applications, OS X just uses application switching whereas Windows and GNOME/KDE use window switching. IMO, window switching is a terrible design decision because it clutters the application switcher and the taskbar/dock and breaks operations that should logically apply to entire applications (quit, hide, Exposé etc.) Another desktop OS that uses application switching instead of window switching is Haiku (a BeOS descendant). Anyhow, if GIMP ran on OS X, you wouldn't need to sift through a bunch of separate windows when you wanted to focus on GIMP. You'd just switch to GIMP the application instead of separately bringing each of GIMPs eighty seven windows to the front first.

Second, when a document based application loses focus, OS X will hide all floating toolbars and panels and all you will see are your document windows. In Exposé, too, all floating panels and toolbars are hidden. This would mean GIMP's myriad tool windows would become invisible when you switched from the GIMP to another application, or when you viewed GIMP's windows in Exposé. No more needles visual clutter!

Third, OS X has a top menubar. This means each of GIMP's windows wouldn't need to have a separate menubar. The global menubar would enable and disable menu entries as you focused on different windows.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#203

Post by d5tryr »

idonthack wrote: post #178
mkr-hn wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a little clumsy if you're working with two images on one screen (especially when drawing/painting with references). A single-window interface has a menu option that lets you tile them. I'll be happy when the single-window version is released.

most complaints about gimp's multi-window UI are really complaints about window management. window management should be handled by the window manager, not by each application.

That may absolve the app of responsibility, doesn't make the UI any better though.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#204

Post by d5tryr »

replicatorblog wrote: post #13

1. Ask for help - I'm a designer that reads HN everyday and I wouldn't know where to look if I wanted to participate in an open source project. Is there a list? The problem is most OS software aside from GIMP/Inkscape doesn't make its way in front of designers often. 2. Make it discrete - What needs to be designed? The entire UI and workflows? The application icon? The internal navigation glyphs? Redesigning an entir…

I'd love to know if there was a list too.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#205

Post by pnathan »

eps wrote: post #163
pnathan wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I just picked up git for Windows, and it is atrociously unusable. Brutally atrocious. It's not like Windows is a popular operating system - git shouldn't support it as a first-class citizen. ;)

Care to elaborate? I've been using the whatever default Windows port that is linked from Git's download page for several months bow and there is nothing atrocious about it. It works well and it does differ much from the Linux version. (edit) The command line version that is.

The GUI is atrocious. I use the GUI for branch visualization, and, well, I had expected something far better.

I use TortoiseHG and I expected parity.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#206

Post by flink »

protomyth wrote: post #145
flink wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

re: 2) I can't speak for all developers, but I generally try to work with the mantra of "first make it work, then make it work well and then make it pretty or fast (depending on what the project is)". I guess that I am a little guilty of thinking of "design" as mostly eye candy and nice-to-have (when in reality, some parts of design probably should be part of making it work well). But I also abhor applications that h…

I think some of the contention comes in the statement "first make it work, then make it work well and then make it pretty or fast (depending on what the project is)" and the belief that without good design in the first place it doesn't really work. Leaving design till the end means it won't really have a positive impact on the use of the software.

While my statement probably doesn't covey this very well, I certainly am not an advocate of amalgamating dirty hacks or throwing any thoughts about good design out the window in the name of speed. You are quite right that leaving design until the very end isn't incredibly efficient or effective.

I'm also not a big believer in the "big design effort up front" methodologies. I tend to think of design (of code, at least) as more of an iterative process. I can't think of a single project I've worked on where a big design effort up front hasn't gone through a huge change before project completion.

Why spend all that time on a huge, detailed design that will end up being partially thrown out in the end when you can make iterative changes and design some things as you go?

Granted, this doesn't work in all situations and you do need good developers who are willing and able to write good, testable code and throw it away at a moment's notice.

If I code something in the "first make it work" phase that isn't throwaway code or can't be completely ripped out and rewritten without too much risk/effort, then I have failed as a developer.

Another mantra I try to code by is: never let perfect be the enemy of good. Perfection is never done and the best design in the world means nothing if it never gets finished.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#207

Post by smag »

Here's what it would take to get me to make bring my product design/interaction design skills to open source software: * Easy way to and keep track of 'what projects are underway now and which need HCI or UX expertise'? * Way to speak with the team over email or IM about what UX challenges there are, and learn the constraints * Confidence that designers will be adequately recognized for their contributions

Reading the thread here makes me realize that we're all so specialized--and this is a big part of the problem. UX designers need to learn to use a command line, need to learn to do at least some coding. Likewise, software engineers (including open source contributors) need to become more discerning about the basic principles of human-computer interaction and user interface design (not just visual styling). Once both roles start to become generalizing specialists, better collaborations will just happen.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#208

Post by armandososa »

Back when I discovered CakePHP I was just a print designer trying to become a web developer. I was so thankful for the work of the CakePHP foundation that I felt really bad for not being able to contribute back (I had no money, and no real programming skills).

So, when they called out for help to design their official website I jumped in and they gave me the opportunity to contribute with my design.

As a happy side effect, that design gave me a lot of exposition so I could finally left my dayjob as a print designer and start my career as a freelance web dev. It's fair to say that the link on CakePHP's footer brought food to my table for 4+ years.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#209

Post by armandososa »

jrwoodruff wrote: post #95

During my day job I play the lone designer in an organization built from day one with only software engineers. I suspect the problems that I face there are similar to the problems faced by designers in OSS. 1. Communication. Developers use a completely different language than designers. If I come in talking about alignment, developers are thinking 'right left or center justified?' When developers start talking about…

I think developers must understand that designers know their stuff and should let them just do their thing. For every 10% of value that you think you are adding (-- hey, I think we'll just use Arial instead of Helvetica) you reduce their commitment by, like, 80%. (Complete paraphrase of something I read on a book I can't remember)

When I had the chance to work in the cakePHP website they were 100% hands off and just let me run wild and do my thing. That has not happened again in my career and I think that continues to be the major highlight in my portfolio (apart from the exciting stuff I'm doing nowadays :P)

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#210

Post by jbk »

AaronChampagne wrote: post #166
verysimple wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, many (not all of them) designers don't understand the difficulties of usability, and sometimes mistakes it with "shiny". Usability of a desktop application is way more complex than a website[...] I think usability is a blend of user experience, usefulness and intuitiveness. I have a hard time associating the latter with either the programmer or the designer. My experience, as a programmer working often with des…

|Most times, when I team up with some designer they'd want to make pretty icons... The designer should know enough to you visual symbols that have real-world equivalents to convey the meaning of the button visually. Envelopes for mail. phones for contact button. Thumbs up to like, thumbs down to dislike. This is my first time learning about the open source project (never been on hacker news before). Can anyone provid…

> I'm terrified of working with you guys but am starting to feel like maybe I should get over that and lend a hand.

You shouldn't be terrified.

My advice: start with a small open source team (not small project) on a project you like. Maybe do not start with your real name (it will be easy to change aftewards). Come on one IRC channel of a project ( like #videolan on freenode) and propose your services. See how people react. If you like them, go on, if you don't, move along.

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