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Stripe refunds: fees from the original charge are not returned

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Re: Stripe refunds: fees from the original charge are not returned

#201

Post by lucasverra »

mchusma wrote: post #33

Note: this is different than Braintree and Amazon payments, which either refund in full or simply charge only the $0.30 fee. Stripe is now at or near the most expensive here relative to the competition. The idea that they have been doing customers a favor is not accurate. I have used stripe for years, but they are a company that has continued to make things worse with every update, versus AWS which has my trust they…

a real alternative (from EU) https://www.mollie.com/en/payments

They are big and cool like stripe.

PS: not related to them, just met them at vivatech paris

Re: Stripe refunds: fees from the original charge are not returned

#202

Post by verletx64 »

joering2 wrote: post #89
pc wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(I'm one of Stripe's cofounders.) Thanks for the candid feedback. A few quick thoughts -- - This is not a new policy change -- it's been our pricing for all new users since 2017. (The news is that we're now applying this pricing to Stripe's older users, in part as a response to some price increases that the card networks are making.) - Our policy on refunds is pretty much the same as Braintree's. - We've added a lot…

Yeah extremely hard to come by with solution right? Visa test / approve / record account: 48 XXXX 01 Visa test / approve / donot record: 48 XXXX 02 Visa test / donot approve / record account 48 XXXX 03 Visa test / donot approve / donot record 48 XXXX 04 Hard to let it to client to decide how to test...

But then does the developer now need to track this list of production test cards and make sure the application doesn’t enact some other logic based on the test purchase?

I mean really, you can get 99.9% of the way there with the test cards in the sandbox, and then give the thing a smoke test in production when you’re ready.

Re: Stripe refunds: fees from the original charge are not returned

#203

Post by verletx64 »

Silhouette wrote: post #128
polemic wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ..don't test production checkout flows.. That's good advice. Payment providers have test gateways and cards for you to test your code against. While it might be a minor convenience for you to have 'fake' cards in their production system, the only thing they have to gain is a potentially serious fraud loophole (at best), or an expensive footgun for you. Don't "test" checkout flows in production unless you're using r…

Payment providers have test gateways and cards for you to test your code against. And yet in 2020, you still can't write an automated test suite that spins up a virgin test environment, simulates all relevant scenarios, and allows you to quickly verify that your integration is responding properly as part of your normal CI process. Working with a single, persistent test environment that offers no facilities to manage…

You can’t create an entirely new sandbox, no, but you can, quite easily test most scenarios. Including weird stuff like falling into delinquency - it takes a little bit more thought, but it’s fine.

Re: Stripe refunds: fees from the original charge are not returned

#204

Post by kkarpkkarp »

pc wrote: post #66
mchusma wrote: post #33

Note: this is different than Braintree and Amazon payments, which either refund in full or simply charge only the $0.30 fee. Stripe is now at or near the most expensive here relative to the competition. The idea that they have been doing customers a favor is not accurate. I have used stripe for years, but they are a company that has continued to make things worse with every update, versus AWS which has my trust they…

(I'm one of Stripe's cofounders.) Thanks for the candid feedback. A few quick thoughts -- - This is not a new policy change -- it's been our pricing for all new users since 2017. (The news is that we're now applying this pricing to Stripe's older users, in part as a response to some price increases that the card networks are making.) - Our policy on refunds is pretty much the same as Braintree's. - We've added a lot…

> I can assure you that the ratio of people working on improving our payments stack to publishing is about 1000:1.

@pc, I just checked that Stripe has about 1800 employees. Could I ask why so many? :) I wouldn't expect such a big number for the company providing one (?) product/service.

Re: Stripe refunds: fees from the original charge are not returned

#205

Post by ThePhysicist »

pc wrote: post #66
mchusma wrote: post #33

Note: this is different than Braintree and Amazon payments, which either refund in full or simply charge only the $0.30 fee. Stripe is now at or near the most expensive here relative to the competition. The idea that they have been doing customers a favor is not accurate. I have used stripe for years, but they are a company that has continued to make things worse with every update, versus AWS which has my trust they…

(I'm one of Stripe's cofounders.) Thanks for the candid feedback. A few quick thoughts -- - This is not a new policy change -- it's been our pricing for all new users since 2017. (The news is that we're now applying this pricing to Stripe's older users, in part as a response to some price increases that the card networks are making.) - Our policy on refunds is pretty much the same as Braintree's. - We've added a lot…

Slightly amusing story about “testing” payment flows in production: In Germany we have payment providers like Sofortüberweisung that ask you for your online banking credentials and then access your online banking via browser orchestration to initiate a transfer (I know it’s an utterly horrible idea from a privacy and security point of view).

What they didn’t know initially was that some banks provide test accounts to customers where you can simulate transfers without transferring any money, and where you can simply enter your desired bank account balance (now that would be a killer feature for real online banking). Some people figured this out and used those fake accounts to make fraudulent orders.

So if you offer such testing card numbers you should make sure your customers need a specific workflow to handle them (e.g. by returning a special error response code that can be distinguished from a normal error).

Re: Stripe refunds: fees from the original charge are not returned

#206

Post by NicoJuicy »

joecool1029 wrote: post #196
patio11 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's difficult for me to predict our response in every possible hypothetical circumstance, so I'm promising what I feel we can actually promise: a human who cares about your success will review the circumstances and make a judgment call.

Translation: Come to HN with your problems and you'll get the VIP treatment while there's a spotlight on the company. Attempting to find an answer as an outsider lead me to this PR release from last year: https://stripe.com/newsroom/news/chargeback-protection < It makes me assume that if the merchant wasn't paying that extra fee they are going to be slammed.

He's given an honest answer, the situation has to be checked.

You don't know that the poster is 100% honest also. Patio has always been transparent and honest, long before he joined Stripe ;)

Re: Stripe refunds: fees from the original charge are not returned

#207

Post by danpalmer »

PerfectElement wrote: post #166

We are doing 200k+ in MRR and looking to move from Stripe because the cost is starting to hurt, and this change feels unfair. Our use-case is pretty simple (capture card and manage subscriptions) and we don't need all the features they have built in the last 5 years or are planing to build. We are looking into Spreedly. Does anyone have other suggestions of Stripe alternatives that are not so expensive?

Have you negotiated with Stripe? Pretty much all of their pricing is negotiable.

Particularly if most of your customers are in the EU where interchange fees are capped at something like 0.3%, so their cost base is much lower.

Re: Stripe refunds: fees from the original charge are not returned

#208

Post by audiometry »

nickjj wrote: post #123
pc wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Stripe has all the power to prevent many forms of fraud and provides this as a service as long as you pay a premium for it in the form of Radar. You have to pay extra on top of the 2.9% + 30c per transaction to get this protection. Radar's ML-based shield is free for all accounts on standard pricing. See https://stripe.com/pricing#radar-pricing . (We only charge if you want to set custom rules etc.)

> (We only charge if you want to set custom rules etc.) The rules are what really allows merchants to protect themselves against fraud but this information isn't possible to obtain without help from their payment gateway (ie. Stripe). In other words, merchants have no reasonable options to set up rules like what Radar does while using our own custom logic because there's no API that Stripe provides for us to get thin…

" you collected all of this data from us and now instead of helping us by offering fraud detection across the board, you'd rather sell our data back to us in the form of insurance."

This kind of move is always galling. McGraw-Hill/Platts is terrible with this, where they take data from traders' transactions and then resell it back to them at extortionate rate. Whole market hates them.

Re: Stripe refunds: fees from the original charge are not returned

#209

Post by LunaSea »

belzebalex wrote: post #198
commoner wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This trend is awful for businesses. In October 2019, PayPal (which owns Braintree) also started to retain their 2.9% + $0.30 processing fee from refunded transactions. Stripe is now in the same class as PayPal. https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/20/20876570/paypal-refund-fe... Square still refunds processing fees to merchants for refunded transactions. They have the same fee (2.9% + $0.30) for online transactions, and a…

* Whistling * Crypto's coming!

10min long transactions, yay!
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