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Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

bbc.com

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Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#201

Post by ip26 »

the_af wrote: post #148
toasterlovin wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could also stop pressuring women to conform to male standards of behavior and economic performance and instead celebrate the fact that they alone are able to perform the sacred work of growing and nurturing new human life. Then the “problem” that policies like this are trying to fix simply ceases to exist.

"Sacred"? It of course has lots of satisfactions -- why would you have babies otherwise? -- but it's also energy draining and it can drive mothers to exhaustion and a feeling of isolation that can lead to depression. And it's also bad for the fathers. Why wouldn't you want to spend more time with your kid? You made him/her, after all.

I'm not religious, but I suppose it is sacred after a fashion- to our species, whom without it, will quickly cease to exist.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#202

Post by vegardx »

LatteLazy wrote: post #62
toomuchtodo wrote: post #12

But will they force Dads to take it? As a Dad who had two kids, I would much rather pay for childcare than take paternity leave. Would someone like me be held back artificially to promote equality? EDIT: Not a freak, don't care for the infant stage. Happy to dote when they start to turn into people.

I'm not a big "babies" guy either. I'd love if you could delay this leave till they were older. But are you really telling me you'd rather go to work and pay for child care than take 7 months off, fully paid, and be at home? You could take the leave, pay for child care and go hiking every day if you wanted...

I can't speak for how they do it in Finland, but at least in Norway you can take the paternity leave over a period of 3 years. I think most people take it out in full, but a lot of self-employed people do that in order to keep things running.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#203

Post by lotsofpulp »

zozbot234 wrote: post #115
LatteLazy wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now all an employer sees is time off. In Finland that means there is no difference to the employer.

I assume the health insurance costs of actually having a baby are quite non-trivial. Of course men tend to get e.g. heart attacks and the like, especially as they age, so I suppose it all balances out in the end.

In the US, health insurers can't take gender into account when setting premiums:

https://www.healthcare.gov/how-plans-set-your-premiums/

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#204

Post by tilolebo »

ryanmercer wrote: post #126

I know I'm going to be downvoted and already regret deciding to share this but... I've never understood parental leave. If I want to go on a vacation, I have to plan for that and save time to use for it. If you want to have a child, you should have to plan to save your time to take and spend with the child or be in a financial place where one parent can quit their job to stay with the child. It's not like you go to s…

Because many governments rely on children to finance the country's economy?

It's still less costly than immigration.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#205

Post by aguyfromnb »

socialdemocrat wrote: post #59
toomuchtodo wrote: post #12

But will they force Dads to take it? As a Dad who had two kids, I would much rather pay for childcare than take paternity leave. Would someone like me be held back artificially to promote equality? EDIT: Not a freak, don't care for the infant stage. Happy to dote when they start to turn into people.

It is just that the days get wasted if you don't take them. So you would be stupid not to do it. > Not a freak, don't care for the infant stage. Happy to dote when they start to turn into people. That is kind of a selfish attitude. The early stage is a lot of work, but why should you skip the work while your wife has to do it all? I remember back in that time. I was quite happy to go back to work the first weeks, bec…

>The early stage is a lot of work, but why should you skip the work while your wife has to do it all?

"Skip the work"? He literally said he's working..a job. Unfortunately, in the society we've built it is considered the most important work, since it pays the bills and enables the ability to start a family.

I agree it's important that both people share the burden of parenthood, but let's not swing it so far the other way that your sole source of income isn't considered "work".

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#206

Post by ip26 »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #83
toomuchtodo wrote: post #12

But will they force Dads to take it? As a Dad who had two kids, I would much rather pay for childcare than take paternity leave. Would someone like me be held back artificially to promote equality? EDIT: Not a freak, don't care for the infant stage. Happy to dote when they start to turn into people.

In the US, I have seen cases of both parents taking company leave, and still putting their kids in childcare so that they can do house projects. Defeats the purpose... culture takes time to change

Who knows, maybe it was a stress outlet. Home improvement certainly was for me when my first was little.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#207

Post by tptacek »

romaaeterna wrote: post #142

My family is of Norwegian extraction and I'm a dad too. My wife has a completely different relationship with my kids than I do. She also had to go through a great deal more to birth them than I did. Her parental leave was as much about medical recovery as it was bonding time with the kids. And, to put this delicately, but as something that needs to be stated because it's true and important for the discussion: she has…

"If you disagree with me you are autistic" is not an OK argument to make on HN.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#208

Post by vertex-four »

keanzu wrote: post #175

> noticed about Norway when we were in Oslo A lot can be achieved when your country floats on oil. The Government Pension Fund Global, aka the Oil Fund, was worth about $195,000 per Norwegian citizen in 2018. If others had this kind of safety net they might behave in a similar manner. Petrostates can afford a lot of leisure time for their citizens.

Time spent raising children is not leisure time.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#209

Post by lotsofpulp »

dfxm12 wrote: post #199
lotsofpulp wrote: post #162

As an American, I find it hard to be patriotic about my country when my fellow citizens can’t muster up the political will to ensure any paid parental leave for most people. Edit: changed parental leave to paid parental leave

Well, there is a big election coming up. You can find out who is on the ballot, where they stand on this issue and pass the info along to the people in your area. If someone isn't planning on having kids, they might not think it affects them, so be prepared to convince them otherwise, too.

I do all of that, and will continue to do so. I can't even convince people that have been negatively impacted by the lack of parental leave to go out and vote. I also only live in states that mandate at least some parental leave.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#210

Post by 0xcafecafe »

aetimmes wrote: post #132

I'm a US male who's 1 month into my 6 months fully-paid paternity leave with our first child. My wife has roughly 4.5 months between banked PTO and FMLA/disability leave. I'm sitting at home right now watching/changing/feeding our baby while my wife is out at doctor's appointments taking care of her health. Having the flexibility to practice a modicum of self-care without neglecting the health and happiness of our ch…

What happens to your responsibilities at work while you are out? And are you totally cut off from work while you are out or are you occasionally responding to mails? Also are you more of an individual contributor or have a leadership role?
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