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Google tracks individual users per Chrome installation ID

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Re: Google tracks individual users per Chrome installation ID

#201
post #119

I don't understand why Google and some other tech companies use their users as involuntary, unpaid guinea pigs. No consent. No opt-out. What's the motivation? Is it simple laziness because they don't want to deal with wetware? Is it afraid that if people knew what was happening they wouldn't be happy? Google has eighty brazillion employees it can test new features on.

Microsoft Vista was a Windows 7 beta, and was "necessary" to basically experiment on the entire Home market, to make the product stable enough for enterprise. Although Window 7 may have been one of the most complex software deployments in history, needing to support decades of poorly written drivers, while making the system both stable and compatible.

>Microsoft Vista was a Windows 7 beta, and was "necessary" to basically experiment on the entire Home market, to make the product stable enough for enterprise.

That claim is directly contradicted by the fact that there's Windows Vista enterprise edition[1]. Vista is also supported for a full 10 years just like 7, which would be strange for something that was supposed to be an "experiment".

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Vista_editions

Re: Google tracks individual users per Chrome installation ID

#203
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which ones? Eich donated like $1000 to a political group that (I would hope) most of us disagree with, but Eich != Mozilla, and he was removed because of the backlash

RiseUp, from their about-us page: https://riseup.net/pl/about-us Riseup’s Purpose. The Riseup Collective is an autonomous body based in Seattle with collective members world wide. Our purpose is to aid in the creation of a free society, a world with freedom from want and freedom of expression, a world without oppression or hierarchy, where power is shared equally. We do this by providing communication and computer re…

That's... interesting.

Does being a "trending project in-network" mean they received money from Mozilla?

Re: Google tracks individual users per Chrome installation ID

#204
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is impressive doublespeak. > This ... header ... will not contain any personally identifiable information > a seed number which is randomly selected on first run ... chosen between 0 and 7999 (13 bits of entropy) They are not including any PII... while creating a new identifier for each installation. 13 bits of entropy probably isn't a unique identifier iff you only look at that header in isolation. Combined wit…

> This ... header ... will not contain any personally identifiable information Except for everything you do on your browser. I'm so glad I haven't used Chrome for almost three years.

[deleted]

Re: Google tracks individual users per Chrome installation ID

#205

This it outrageous. Browsers are user-agents, not advertising accelerators. They should hide as much personal identifiable information as possible. This is exactly why using a browser from an advertising company is not a good idea. They use it to improve their service... The lie gets old... This comment was sadly written in Chrome, since I need it for testing... edit: pretty much exactly 10 years ago they already tri…

Well when the browser is created by an advertising company...

Re: Google tracks individual users per Chrome installation ID

#206
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Linking that browser ID to a personal account is trivial as soon as someone logs in to any Google service. Wat? You mean to tell me they can identify you if you log into their service? Am I missing something here? Who cares?

Yes you are missing something important. Once they've tied the browser ID to your personal account they can track you across all google properties, even the ones that you didn't log into.

I still don't understand. When I log into gmail, it logs me into all Google services. If I am worried about being tracked, surely my first mistake is logging in in the first place? Or visiting in the first place? After all, even if I click "log out," I'm only trusting Google that they unlinked the browser state from the account. If I trust them to do that, I don't see why I shouldn't trust them to ignore this experiment flag from Chrome, or at least not use it for tracking. If I don't trust them to avoid using the experiment state, I don't really see how you can trust them for anything.

Anyway, if you're not building Chrome from source, then you have to trust that they aren't putting anything bad in it. And if you are building chrome from source, you can observe that they only send this experiment ID to certain domains, and they already know who you are on those domains anyway.

Re: Google tracks individual users per Chrome installation ID

#207

I don't understand why Google and some other tech companies use their users as involuntary, unpaid guinea pigs. No consent. No opt-out. What's the motivation? Is it simple laziness because they don't want to deal with wetware? Is it afraid that if people knew what was happening they wouldn't be happy? Google has eighty brazillion employees it can test new features on.

> No consent. No opt-out.

Do you understand what licensing is? That's one of the underlying aspects that's important with software and why you can't treat it like other things you buy. I'd add it's also why things that adopt software-style licencing models are bad too.

A company creates a licence with terms and you agree to use the licence under those terms by using the software. The terms are difficult to change unless you have leverage. The only party other than the company is often the regulatory authority. Regulation is limited in the US at best when compared to the EU. If you are from the EU then you probably assume the US works similarly, but most Americans don't recognize issues like this one. When they do, it's hard to fight the incumbents and make something opt-in, or ban it outright.

> What's the motivation? Is it simple laziness because they don't want to deal with wetware? (the start of your first paragraph applies here too)

It's fairly simple. The motivation is making correct decisions based on the gold standards of decision-making that some people aspire to. The model is not dissimilar to clinical trials where a treatment is given to some individuals and not to others. The hope is that this form of experimentation removes bias and let's the product manager make the best decisions.

Based on this thinking it is not possible to test with just Google's employees. For many decisions, the bias will be significant, and ultimately the belief is that worse decisions will be made for users.

I'm trying to convey that in as neutral way as possible. I think this can be a useful technique, but I think that there is little discipline and accountability in the wider software world compared to medicine. You have PMs who'll routinely just run an A/B test longer to collect more data (that's better, right?), but invalidate their results, just to please management.

If anyone is going to implement this approach then I'd trust Google to implement it effectively to meet their needs. They do it on a large scale across their products and have many layers of people to ensure it's effectively meeting their needs. As stated in the previous paragraph, this doesn't mean that other people do it right, or that everyone in Google does it right every time. I'm sure they've had a fair share of failed experiments.

Re: Google tracks individual users per Chrome installation ID

#208
post #94
post #4

Not endorsing this, but according to https://www.google.com/chrome/privacy/whitepaper.html#variat... > We want to build features that users want, so a subset of users may get a sneak peek at new functionality being tested before it’s launched to the world at large. A list of field trials that are currently active on your installation of Chrome will be included in all requests sent to Google. This Chrome-Variations he…

This is impressive doublespeak. > This ... header ... will not contain any personally identifiable information > a seed number which is randomly selected on first run ... chosen between 0 and 7999 (13 bits of entropy) They are not including any PII... while creating a new identifier for each installation. 13 bits of entropy probably isn't a unique identifier iff you only look at that header in isolation. Combined wit…

Yes, if you have enough bits you can come up with a fingerprint, but that's not what PII means.

Re: Google tracks individual users per Chrome installation ID

#209

You can see all the domains they add the header to here: https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/comp... Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21034849

Actual list: https://cs.chromium.org/chromium/src/components/google/core/...

Re: Google tracks individual users per Chrome installation ID

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a certain irony of linking to an amp site on Google's domain as part of a larger discussion about their business ethics.

Is this better? https://search.yahoo.co.jp/amp/s/9to5google.com/2020/02/03/a...

How about just https://9to5google.com/2020/02/03/alphabet-q4-2019-earnings/ ?

No amp required, under 1 second to display content. I will say that it's a bit beefy at 5mb total, though the AMP site loads the same amount.

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