Top Paying Tech Companies by SWE Level • Hacker News Board

Re: Top Paying Tech Companies by SWE Level

#201

Post by kqr » Mon, Jan 06, 2020, 8:36 AM UTC

slg wrote: post #11

I have never worked in the valley, so the answer to this question might be obvious to the people working there. What happens to all the experienced engineers? According to this, the Senior, Staff, or Principal titles are generally for people with 5+ year experience? Those roles make up 30%, 10%, and 3% of companies respectively. That leaves 57% of engineers in positions listed are usually for people with 0-5 years ex…

> Does that mean over half of engineers are relatively new to the industry?

Jackpot!

All it takes for this to happen is that the number of software engineers in the world grows by 10--20% every year. (Because this means it doubles every 5 years, which means half the workforce has less than or equal to five years of experience.

I recall reading somewhere that the actual growth of the workforce is even greater than that -- somewhere around 25%!

Re: Top Paying Tech Companies by SWE Level

#202

Post by TrackerFF » Mon, Jan 06, 2020, 8:38 AM UTC

gamesbrainiac wrote: post #100

Looks like us over here in Europe are getting shafted. Even if you adjust for living expenses, European engineers are grossly underpaid.

It very much depends on industry. It's typical that industries with a lot of money also pays higher salaries. When I first started out as an Engineer in oil and gas, salaries had peaked. Senior Engineers were getting paid $300k-$400k.

The brain drain was real. Why would any engineer bother with other sectors, when you could get paid 50%-100% more in O&G, compared to other sectors? Startups, almost no mater how well-funded (by European standards), couldn't compete.

But, surprise surprise, the good days came to an end - massive layoffs, and people suddenly found themselves in those other "lesser" industries, with massive pay cuts.

The good news is that I've seen an explosion in entrepreneurship and tech the past 5-10 years, and people are more willing to try those routes, as well as that the VC community seems to grow stronger.

Re: Top Paying Tech Companies by SWE Level

#203

Post by thundergolfer » Mon, Jan 06, 2020, 8:46 AM UTC

thatsenough wrote: post #97

meritt wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> many (most) companies are grossly underpaying their engineers. No, that's simply unfair to the companies who don't have billions of dollars in free cash flow or effectively infinite amounts of VC money. The top firms have gotten themselves into an insane bidding war which has a side effect of creating an oligopoly on talent, as it's simply unrealistic to impossible for many firms to compete. Not to mention they app…

> The top firms have gotten themselves into an insane bidding war. That may be true, but there's more to it than that. The first wave of successful IPOs (Facebook, Amazon, Google, Twitter, etc.) caused a spike in housing prices as employees purchased houses. On top of that, companies have added tens of thousands of new jobs, without proportional growth in the housing supply. So housing prices are now absurd, and thes…

> can buy smallish houses on the peninsula at $1.5-$2.5M a piece and have a middle-class quality of life.

That's the same situation as in Sydney, but Aussie engineers aren't getting near the level of pay of Bay Area engineers.

It's not the housing prices, it's more the labour market competition.

Re: Top Paying Tech Companies by SWE Level

#204

Post by amznthrowaway5 » Mon, Jan 06, 2020, 8:47 AM UTC

cletus wrote: post #171

As a FAANG engineer going on 9 years now, let me address the usual rebuttals: - There is a selection bias. Nope, this is pretty much accurate. - These aren't real. Yes, yes they are. - Self-reporters are lying. Maybe some do but these numbers are pretty accurate. If anything, I question Lyft and Airbnb as such outliers. I wonder if this factored in Lyft's post-IPO stock performance and makes unrealistic valuations of…

> - These numbers are inflated by years of stock growth that is unlikely to continue in the future. This there is some truth to but not as much as people claim. Amazon, of all these companies, builds in expected stock growth into their initial grant valuation (which I think is total BS; if any Amazon recruiters are reading this, please stop).

Yeah Amazon is really deceptive with their offers and raises. Assume you won't get anything more than what's on the offer letter, even if you get promoted. And don't expect much reward for high performance, if you want a proper raise you'll need to job hop instead. Even if you do get a reward, expect it to be heavily deferred and reduced based on a ridiculous 15% stock growth assumption. Amazon uses a 6 month vesting schedule to try and ensure they have ample time to kick you out before a vest (or they get to get away with not giving you the comp if you get angry and leave before a vest). Here is a review of how Amazon comp works:

https://www.teamblind.com/post/How-refreshers%E2%80%9D-work-...

Re: Top Paying Tech Companies by SWE Level

#205

Post by jedberg » Mon, Jan 06, 2020, 8:49 AM UTC

nixgeek wrote: post #155

jedberg wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many go to management. You realize as you get older that the whole “you can progress up the salary chart as an IC just as well as management” is a total crock. If you want to afford a nice house in a good neighborhood with good schools in the Bay Area, you’ve got to go into management.

I kinda disagree, Oracle/HP (personal experience) and Google/IBM (extremely good friends) both have career tracks for IC which go up to ‘Distinguished Engineer’ level, and where compensation can be equivalent to a VP on the management track. What you might be trying to say is there are more available positions at VP than DE, so your chances of making it are better? Or that being promoted to VP is easier than to DE? I…

> both have career tracks for IC which go up to ‘Distinguished Engineer’ level, and where compensation can be equivalent to a VP on the management track.

Sure, it exists. How many DEs do you know of, vs. VPs?

How do you get a DE job? Usually you are the most well known person in your field.

How you do you get a VP job? You have to be a pretty good manager.

At Google, there are 100s of VPs. There are maybe 10 DEs, if that many.

That's the BS. It's like saying "there is totally a path to getting really rich as an actor!". Sure, there is a path, but not a lot of people make it. And even the ones that do usually get there by also doing the management path (producer) at the same time.

The lie is in the claim it's just as easy to climb the DE ladder as it is the VP ladder.

It's not. Not even close.

Re: Top Paying Tech Companies by SWE Level

#206

Post by rdslw » Mon, Jan 06, 2020, 8:54 AM UTC

slg wrote: post #11

I have never worked in the valley, so the answer to this question might be obvious to the people working there. What happens to all the experienced engineers? According to this, the Senior, Staff, or Principal titles are generally for people with 5+ year experience? Those roles make up 30%, 10%, and 3% of companies respectively. That leaves 57% of engineers in positions listed are usually for people with 0-5 years ex…

what struct me actually is this: > Typically 2-5+ years of experience. (...) Possibly lead a small team or project. Ability to mentor engineers (...)

WHAT?

I don't know a profession with high knowledge requirements where after 2 years you can and are expected as a job req to manage a team.

This speaks to me two things: a. a lot of staff is young and unexperienced b. rotation in segment <5 is big

Re: Top Paying Tech Companies by SWE Level

#207

Post by techie128 » Mon, Jan 06, 2020, 9:04 AM UTC

levels.fyi doesn't accurately represent the overall picture. Not everyone gets paid so well at each of their levels. Every company, especially FANGs, maintain a bell curve. levels.fyi cannot capture that curve accurately. They tend to skew high in most cases. So like everything else in life, take it with a pinch of salt [unless you're hypertensive ;)].

Re: Top Paying Tech Companies by SWE Level

#208

Post by techie128 » Mon, Jan 06, 2020, 9:06 AM UTC

HenryKissinger wrote: post #52

$175,000 at Oracle for an entry-level engineer? I mean... just... wow. You could retire at 35 and not have to work for the rest of your life. How hard is it to get these jobs?

Before you go gaga over this figure, here's a reality check. Oracle only paid such high wages in their OCI division which had a blank check. After their brutal fight with AMZN over the cloud wars and the subsequent reality check, they've had a ton of layoffs (surprise, surprise). So I would take this comp with a pinch of salt.

Re: Top Paying Tech Companies by SWE Level

#209

Post by rdslw » Mon, Jan 06, 2020, 9:12 AM UTC

huehehue wrote: post #53

What I'm taking away from this is that many (most) companies are grossly underpaying their engineers. I've been through the SF/NYC Senior SWE interviewing gauntlet twice in the past three years, and received 10+ offers at half this rate. Levels claims to be checking offer letters, which is great IMO. It's really hard for people to know they're being undervalued when the employers are low-balling and the self-reporter…

Disagree.

This is top 5. Look at the difference betwen position 1 and 5 (30% (sic!) for entry level). Ask yourself how many companies are in the SV area?

Then think where MEDIAN of those numbers is.

Looking at top 5 is like looking at best performing stocks in last year (from 5000 of ohers), and thinking "YEAH, thats what I should expect from my future investment portfolio".

Re: Top Paying Tech Companies by SWE Level

#210

Post by boulos » Mon, Jan 06, 2020, 9:18 AM UTC

TrackerFF wrote: post #197

HenryKissinger wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Canada entry level SWEs are getting paid 60k-70k CAD (45k-55k USD). It's worse in Europe. These numbers are absolutely mind boggling. Even with a higher cost of living and California income taxes, you still have at least 100k of free money to invest. It's no wonder so many people apply for jobs at FAANGs. A job at a FAANG is practically a ticket to early retirement.

The housing prices you see SF are unheard of in Europe, outside maybe only London. And even then, we're talking about the most gentrified areas of London. FWIW, I make a "meager" half of those starting salaries, but I'm able to save around $80k / year. Why? Because I pay next to nothing in housing. Purchased my home for $15k. Dropped another $15k in renovations, and that's gonna last a good time. I'm on the track to…

Can you say more about your home? Perhaps rough size and country? 15k is really cheap even if you bought it a while ago.

I assume you’re in Europe somewhere from your comment, but even Bulgaria which is fairly cheap isn’t that cheap. For example, housing outside the center of town in Sofia is about 1000 euros per square meter [1] (for sq ft folks, multiply sq meters by 10 roughly). Varna is a bit cheaper at 700 which is a bit below the countrywide average of 750.

Bulgaria is often listed as the cheapest country in the EU, so I’m curious to understand if there’s a drastic housing price drop somewhere. But even $30k to buy would mean about a 30 sq m (300 sq ft) flat, which is more like microhousing.

[1] https://www.numbeo.com/property-investment/in/Sofia?displayC...