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Renowned Entomologist Says ‘Get Rid of Your Lawn’

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Re: Renowned Entomologist Says ‘Get Rid of Your Lawn’

#201

Post by smichel17 »

perl4ever wrote: post #21
Waterluvian wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to take on the cognitive load of being the generalist for everything, all the power to you! For me I pick and choose. I pretty much leave my car and rooftop to the experts but I dabble in electrical, plumming, carpentry, landscaping, etc. Etc.

It doesn't matter what I want . Your second sentence is about when you defer to experts and when you don't, so apparently you too are your own generalist. There are no "expert generalists"! If you wanted one, you'd need an even more general generalist to choose which generalist was trustworthy...

Would that not be a generalist expert? -- specializes in determining whether a generalist is trustworthy.

Re: Renowned Entomologist Says ‘Get Rid of Your Lawn’

#202

Post by falcolas »

alistairSH wrote: post #185
graeme wrote: post #184

My parents cut the lawn but otherwise do nothing to it. It abounds with many different insect species: ants, bees, grasshoppers, dragonflies, butterflies, moths Many different flowers and grasses grow, along with strawberries, clover, etc. This may depend on climate; they’re in eastern canada. And I’m sure there would be arrange things to create an even better bug environment. But the default lawn can be quite good f…

It's common in the US to treat lawns so that only a single, or small number of, grass species exists. This is a relatively new thing - through the 1960s or so, lawns were as you describe - as long as it was mostly green, it was just mowed - clovers and some other "weeds" were allowed to grow alongside grass. The advent of targeted herbicides and advertising campaigns has led us to growing monoculture lawns.

In my neighborhood, there’s maybe 1 person out of every 20 who does this. The rest of us mow it regularly and move on with the rest of our lives.

The highly visible actions of a few who have the time to take those actions (or pay for those actions) is not representative of the rest of us.

Re: Renowned Entomologist Says ‘Get Rid of Your Lawn’

#203

Post by jerf »

bluGill wrote: post #146
DrRobinson wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really see the point of this argument, isn't this true for basically _all_ water usage?

Exactly. Water is used, but not lost. Except for cases where more is drawn from an aquifer than replaces it (a very real problem, but not one that quantity of water used in beef touches in a useful way), the water is just passed on down the line. Thus the whole argument doesn't make sense. It is a big number that vegetarians like though because they can make it sound bad while the more complex truth is too complex to…

I find understanding this sort of thing is much easier to look at from an energy perspective than a materials perspective. Water is "used" when entropy is dumped into it that makes it less suitable for usage. It takes energy to turn it back into useful pure water. Nature provides a lot of energy that turns it back into pure water, but it may not do it as quickly as we use it, or where we want it, or when we want it. And sometimes the problem is that it dumps fresh water on us far in excess of our desires.

It's still not a perfect perspective, because the exact nature of what's in the water can be an issue (i.e., urine is "bad" for most uses, but may fertilize well, etc.). But it's at least closer to the truth than the mindset that water is poured into a cow and disappears from the universe entirely. If goodness and pureness was a one-time consumable item that way, the way some people seem to conceive of it, the ecosystem would have run out of it billions of years ago. It is a renewable resource.

Re: Renowned Entomologist Says ‘Get Rid of Your Lawn’

#204

Post by rubidium »

mcv wrote: post #191
rubidium wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be a parent. Set rules and consequences. Outside time or no Minecraft seems like a no brainer. Interact and get him to join you in things you like doing outside. He’ll probably hate it for 1 month or 1 year, but it’s your responsibility.

Things I like doing outside? I'm afraid that's a very short list. I totally understand where he's coming from. We do set rules, it's just that we don't always maintain them very strictly, and he loves to bend them. And when he does play outside to get more Minecraft time, he thinks 15 minutes outside it enough. It seems he just has no idea what to do outside. As a kid, I regularly played outside, probably because I h…

Ah yes, your city environment will make it more difficult. That said, if he's old enough to bike (and the city you live in has some bike safe areas) then that's a great hobby to push. Taking 30 minute walks around the neighborhood is another. Regularly going outdoors (taking a walk together, visiting parks, any local state parks) as a family helps. But yea, if you're not doing it it's not going to transfer well to your kids.

Regarding setting rules: Kids are very bright when it comes to getting their way. If there's any loopholes they'll exploit them. If they detect weakness in resolve then they'll push and push using negotiation, guilt, deception, etc... The question they're trying to figure out is, is my parent in charge or can I be? The hardest but best thing you can do as a parent to instill disciple is to be clear, consistent, and follow-through. It's really hard. I'm in the midst of it too!

Re: Renowned Entomologist Says ‘Get Rid of Your Lawn’

#205

Post by [deleted] »

colechristensen wrote: post #14
jws wrote: post #5

The article seems sloppy. It’s just grass with pesticides. I take care of about two acres of lawns across a few properties for a few decades. I’ve never put pesticides on the lawns. Herbicides, sure, sometimes lots of herbicides, but all very much plant specific. I suppose some places must use pesticides, but here in the middle of the US grass just sort of uses sun, water, nitrogen, and some other stuff and grows. Al…

My family never put anything on the, eh, 3 acres of grass I regularly had to mow as a kid. It wasn't perfect, nobody cared. There were dandelions, there was some clover. If you can bear to tolerate the fact that your lawn isn't going to look like a putting green, you can do literally nothing but cut it and perhaps water it if your climate requires and be done with it. If there are plants you don't want in your lawn,…

[deleted]

Re: Renowned Entomologist Says ‘Get Rid of Your Lawn’

#206

Post by dhimes »

dbingham wrote: post #187
lr4444lr wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have both a lawn, and a perimeter where I grow flowers, edibles, and trees. I am happy that you find your conversion satisfying, but there is no conceivable way I am going to believe the careful weeding, deadheading, variable watering, pruning, shading, trellising, etc. is less maintenance than simply running the mower and edger once a week at MOST, and relying on an automated sprinkler system. (Maybe a 2x/year wee…

If you're going for a perfectly maintained look to wild plantings, then yeah, that's a a lot of work. We've replaced our lawn with wild savanna, and it's zero work. We just let it go. It looks totally wild, and I'm happy with that. (Getting it in place - removing the invasives, improving the soil, planting trees, and spreading native wildflower and grass seeds was a lot of work - but since its established its very li…

Oh- so you're that neighbor. It's not just a change in your aesthetics that's needed. If you live in a community then it's prudent to get community buy-in. Especially if you have kids.

Community reputation means a lot more than some people realize. Source: I've been on both sides of this one.

Re: Renowned Entomologist Says ‘Get Rid of Your Lawn’

#207

Post by alistairSH »

falcolas wrote: post #202
alistairSH wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's common in the US to treat lawns so that only a single, or small number of, grass species exists. This is a relatively new thing - through the 1960s or so, lawns were as you describe - as long as it was mostly green, it was just mowed - clovers and some other "weeds" were allowed to grow alongside grass. The advent of targeted herbicides and advertising campaigns has led us to growing monoculture lawns.

In my neighborhood, there’s maybe 1 person out of every 20 who does this. The rest of us mow it regularly and move on with the rest of our lives. The highly visible actions of a few who have the time to take those actions (or pay for those actions) is not representative of the rest of us.

That's not my experience (suburban DC). Overall, I'd guess closer to 1/5 or 1/10 do seasonal treatments. In wealthier subdivisions ($800k+ homes, which isn't unusual here), I'd guess half or more have regular lawn service including chemical treatments. In more middle-class areas, the number of professional treatments drops off considerably, but the residents still do a substantial amount of fertilizing on their own.

Re: Renowned Entomologist Says ‘Get Rid of Your Lawn’

#208

Post by corporate_shi11 »

dbingham wrote: post #187
lr4444lr wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have both a lawn, and a perimeter where I grow flowers, edibles, and trees. I am happy that you find your conversion satisfying, but there is no conceivable way I am going to believe the careful weeding, deadheading, variable watering, pruning, shading, trellising, etc. is less maintenance than simply running the mower and edger once a week at MOST, and relying on an automated sprinkler system. (Maybe a 2x/year wee…

If you're going for a perfectly maintained look to wild plantings, then yeah, that's a a lot of work. We've replaced our lawn with wild savanna, and it's zero work. We just let it go. It looks totally wild, and I'm happy with that. (Getting it in place - removing the invasives, improving the soil, planting trees, and spreading native wildflower and grass seeds was a lot of work - but since its established its very li…

You're telling people that they "need" to change their subjective appreciation of what constitutes beauty and aesthetic pleasure? I mean this as sincere constructive criticism, you will not win support for sustainability with such a demand. People don't enjoy being told how they "need" to feel about something as personal as aesthetic experience.

Focus on how sustainability is good for people and how it will improve their lives. If they prefer orderly, manicured lawns, don't look down at them saying they need to change their aesthetics.

Re: Renowned Entomologist Says ‘Get Rid of Your Lawn’

#209

Post by pbhjpbhj »

Pfhreak wrote: post #194
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where does she play ball games, set up a paddling pool, and wrestle? I'd agree if you have a house big enough to have a playroom, and have open space close by, it's probably easy enough. Our lawn is kinda a tiny, tiny, wildflower meadow, ie it's not cut much. The bees love the Clover.

Ball games are at the park. It's a short bike ride or moderate walk away. We have a small gravel area we set up the paddling pool in, and no reason one can't wrestle in between beds (or indoors on the carpet).

Great for you, our house is small (for the UK), there's a shoulder width of space around the beds; a park with grass is too far for the little ones to walk and there's been a couple of stabbings locally which makes us a little reluctant to let them out.

It's almost like sweeping statements such as "no one should have a lawn" need modifiers. ;o)

I'd guess grass is still better environmentally than gravel; so long as you don't over tend it (and our mower was rescued from the dump).

Have fun.

Re: Renowned Entomologist Says ‘Get Rid of Your Lawn’

#210

Post by brlewis »

dbingham wrote: post #187
lr4444lr wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have both a lawn, and a perimeter where I grow flowers, edibles, and trees. I am happy that you find your conversion satisfying, but there is no conceivable way I am going to believe the careful weeding, deadheading, variable watering, pruning, shading, trellising, etc. is less maintenance than simply running the mower and edger once a week at MOST, and relying on an automated sprinkler system. (Maybe a 2x/year wee…

If you're going for a perfectly maintained look to wild plantings, then yeah, that's a a lot of work. We've replaced our lawn with wild savanna, and it's zero work. We just let it go. It looks totally wild, and I'm happy with that. (Getting it in place - removing the invasives, improving the soil, planting trees, and spreading native wildflower and grass seeds was a lot of work - but since its established its very li…

In New England letting grasses flourish would also provide a home for ticks and Lyme disease. I try to be friendly to pollinators but unfriendly to ticks.
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