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Psilocybin found safe for consumption in largest ever controlled study

independent.co.uk

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Re: Psilocybin found safe for consumption in largest ever controlled study

#201

Post by maest »

lowdose wrote: post #174
malux85 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, your conclusion is bullshit. > First, any given trip alleviates depression for about a month or two. That makes sense to me in a sense that the word "trip" isn't a coincidence-- a really fun intense vacation in a foreign country also alleviates depression for a month or two. You swear that when you come back things will be different, but then you have to answer slack messages at 9pm, and your project is slipping…

Brutal honesty at its best. If everyone had the guts to talk this tone to their boss the world would look a lot better.

I found that post aggressive, biased, and kinda missing GP's point.

Re: Psilocybin found safe for consumption in largest ever controlled study

#202

Post by mikelyons »

say_it_as_it_is wrote: post #99

Don't rush out and take mushrooms. If you're not taking it in a clinical setting, you're doing it wrong.

IMO There is a much better case for: if you're not taking it in a spiritual setting you're doing it wrong.

Anecdotally I've had the bad experience and the life-changing transcendent experience, all self-directed.

In my experience. It's not good for partying, but it's very good for meditating and inquiring deep into the nature of your being, what reality is, what Love is and what God is.

I've had long periods in my life of being a hard-line rationalist atheist. And I've had direct encounters with God. If there is one thing I learned it's this: You can't take anything as a belief you have to validate it in your direct experience.

Re: Psilocybin found safe for consumption in largest ever controlled study

#204

Post by chronofar »

shlant wrote: post #150
chronofar wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, there is a wide delta of difference between taking these substances recreationally and in a clinical setting. Any clinician involved with these trials is not going to equivocate their use in treating depression with your weekend in the woods with your friends. Second if we are talking recreationally I have met many, many people on a third path there: the understanding that psychedelics offer a beautiful…

> "I believe your cynicism has sliced off only a portion of the truth here and tilted focus in the wrong directions." I think his cynicism is completely warranted considering how many people are starting to view psychedelics as a panacea. Do psychedelics offer an experience that could be part of, or even a spark a greater shift? Sure. Could psychedelics provide temporary relief from things like depression and anxiety…

All of what you said here is true, but that does not equate to "bullshit." Some level of skepticism is of course warranted. Complete dismissal is not.

Re: Psilocybin found safe for consumption in largest ever controlled study

#205

Post by dbingham »

derefr wrote: post #102
dbingham wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IV Saline Solution is not a good analogy, that's a very different case from herbal medicine. People have been using willow bark for pain relief for hundreds if not thousands of years. They have not been injecting saline solution. There's reason to believe that, in some cases, it is better to get medicines in their tried and true forms (those used for hundreds or thousands of years) rather than their more recent isola…

The thing is, unless you operate in a system that also has a pipeline for manufacturing and delivering medical marijuana to pharmacies—and the patient is likely to take advantage of that, rather than just using their medical-marijuana card to go to their local head shop—then you as a doctor have a choice to make, between "prescribe them something they can only [in this country] get at a pharmacy, which is therefore l…

You're not wrong that herbal supplements are completely unregulated, and I totally agree that its a huge problem. But I still think you're putting far too much faith into the regulation we do have for the drug market. The regulatory agencies have been pretty thoroughly captured by the drug makers. And profit is a hugely corrupting influence. Just look at the insanity that has taken place with the makers of opioids and the opioid epidemic.

I think the point is that we need to work to improve the regulation of both concentrated drugs and of herbal supplements.

And in the mean time, if people want to use that plant because it makes the feel better - let them. And if their doctor thinks that plant will serve them better than the mass produced drug, let the doctor proscribe the plant. After all, their doctor is the real expert here.

Re: Psilocybin found safe for consumption in largest ever controlled study

#207

Post by Red_Leaves_Flyy »

mnky9800n wrote: post #181
malux85 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, your conclusion is bullshit. > First, any given trip alleviates depression for about a month or two. That makes sense to me in a sense that the word "trip" isn't a coincidence-- a really fun intense vacation in a foreign country also alleviates depression for a month or two. You swear that when you come back things will be different, but then you have to answer slack messages at 9pm, and your project is slipping…

Also, drugs only work in combination with talk therapy. It's amazing how many people argue for everything under the sun except talk therapy.

Talk therapy is expensive. $150/HR is about the base rate for my city. An average treatment regimen is 3x1hr/wk or $1,800USD/mo. That's 68% the 2016 individual median equivalent annual income. Therapists qualified and stable enough to treat severe illnesses are exceptionally rare. Rare enough that they can charge a multiple of the rate I quoted, while maintaining a calender as full as they like and a waiting list of willing clients, and can choose to accept or refuse insurance on a whim.

It's amazing how many people casually bring up the wonders of talk therapy without noting any of the confounding factors the patient must watch for while they pay out the nose for therapy that may end up having detrimental effects. An average or worse therapist for anything but textbook cases are liable to cause more harm than good.

Re: Psilocybin found safe for consumption in largest ever controlled study

#208

Post by slothtrop »

malux85 wrote: post #167
coffeemug wrote: post #130

Counter-anecdote: I've experimented with this stuff extensively in various settings and have known many other people who did, and in my experience it's unequivocally bullshit. Here's what happens. First, any given trip alleviates depression for about a month or two. That makes sense to me in a sense that the word "trip" isn't a coincidence-- a really fun intense vacation in a foreign country also alleviates depressio…

No, your conclusion is bullshit. > First, any given trip alleviates depression for about a month or two. That makes sense to me in a sense that the word "trip" isn't a coincidence-- a really fun intense vacation in a foreign country also alleviates depression for a month or two. You swear that when you come back things will be different, but then you have to answer slack messages at 9pm, and your project is slipping…

While this rings true, consider we can pursue this conclusion for just about any instance where depression is reported. We can say: why aren't you drastically shaking things up? Why are you not making changes of extreme consequence that will completely change your life in unpredictable ways? Change frightens people, but some have more to lose than others. A few years before I met my SO, I had broken up with a partner of over 3 years and changed jobs, then subsequently fell into sleeplessness and depression for a year. Change isn't necessarily free, though probably worth it if it's under serious consideration.

In my observation the perpetually depressed are often (no, not always, but very often) home bodies who barely leave their domicile and spend ample amounts of time on social media, staying up late mindlessly scrolling through their phones. There are simple but perhaps difficult changes to be made here.

Re: Psilocybin found safe for consumption in largest ever controlled study

#209

Post by TheOperator »

Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #207
mnky9800n wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, drugs only work in combination with talk therapy. It's amazing how many people argue for everything under the sun except talk therapy.

Talk therapy is expensive. $150/HR is about the base rate for my city. An average treatment regimen is 3x1hr/wk or $1,800USD/mo. That's 68% the 2016 individual median equivalent annual income. Therapists qualified and stable enough to treat severe illnesses are exceptionally rare. Rare enough that they can charge a multiple of the rate I quoted, while maintaining a calender as full as they like and a waiting list of…

Not having thousands of dollars you may have otherwise to use for various productive purposes had can also have a detrimental effect on health.

Re: Psilocybin found safe for consumption in largest ever controlled study

#210

Post by malux85 »

slothtrop wrote: post #208
malux85 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, your conclusion is bullshit. > First, any given trip alleviates depression for about a month or two. That makes sense to me in a sense that the word "trip" isn't a coincidence-- a really fun intense vacation in a foreign country also alleviates depression for a month or two. You swear that when you come back things will be different, but then you have to answer slack messages at 9pm, and your project is slipping…

While this rings true, consider we can pursue this conclusion for just about any instance where depression is reported. We can say: why aren't you drastically shaking things up? Why are you not making changes of extreme consequence that will completely change your life in unpredictable ways? Change frightens people, but some have more to lose than others. A few years before I met my SO, I had broken up with a partner…

Yes - and it's mushrooms that will knock you out of this funk.

The mushrooms fixed him for 2 or so months. During that time he should have woken up and sorted his life out. Thats enough time to start exercising, having the conversations at home and work.

You dont have to solve everything all at once, but fixing depression is a cumulative process where even small changes in diet, exercise and environment will compound over time and put you in a better place.

The mushrooms will show you the answer, but it's up to the individual to act.

Did you notice in his post he didn't describe what happened when he was cured in those two months? No, straight back to finger pointing and blaming everyone else.

He needs to hear the blunt truth : maybe, just maybe, it's his fault. Then he can take more mushrooms and work on fixing it, rather than expecting them to be a magic bullet.

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