Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair • Hacker News Board

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#201

Post by cletus » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 12:17 AM UTC

ISL wrote: post #14

Right to repair is increasingly hitting people outside of agrarian/industrial contexts. This month, Google shipped the last update for my Pixel phone. The hardware is functional and in great shape, but I don't think there are any truly viable ways for me to keep it secure. I have a tablet that long-ago met the same fate. This is in the same world where I can 'apt-get update' my seven-year old desktop and work with ap…

So here is an area where Apple is significantly better than Android.

The original Pixel is just over 3 years old and is now EOL for official releases.

iOS 13 (current version) has minimum hadware of the iPhone 6S, released September 2015. That may only be a year but it will continue to receive iOS 13 updates for probably another year or so at least (rumour has it iOS 14 will be released late 2020 and no one yet knows the minimum hardware spec for that).

Android has always been terrible for OS updates. Google's hardware was at least significantly better than, say, Samsung (for older phones getting the latest Android) but still... not great.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#202

Post by nokcha » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 12:18 AM UTC

kaffeemitsahne wrote: post #65

dbcurtis wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the early days, farm tractors were pretty simple, and many farmers did a lot of their own work. As machines got bigger, most used local repair shops that could always order from parts depots. But as electronics has invaded tractors (for many good reasons) it has gotten to the point where you really need the diagnostic equipment. So this is a lot like what auto repair was in the early days of the diagnostic plug-in…

I still don't get from your description what the point or motive would be. Who is locking in whom, for what purpose?

The manufacturer can charge higher prices for repairs if it can exclude third parties from performing repairs.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#203

Post by p1necone » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 12:20 AM UTC

cletus wrote: post #201

ISL wrote: post #14

Right to repair is increasingly hitting people outside of agrarian/industrial contexts. This month, Google shipped the last update for my Pixel phone. The hardware is functional and in great shape, but I don't think there are any truly viable ways for me to keep it secure. I have a tablet that long-ago met the same fate. This is in the same world where I can 'apt-get update' my seven-year old desktop and work with ap…

So here is an area where Apple is significantly better than Android. The original Pixel is just over 3 years old and is now EOL for official releases. iOS 13 (current version) has minimum hadware of the iPhone 6S, released September 2015. That may only be a year but it will continue to receive iOS 13 updates for probably another year or so at least (rumour has it iOS 14 will be released late 2020 and no one yet knows…

This is still garbage compared to Windows and Linux though. You can take basically any x86 computer from more than a decade ago and install modern Windows or your favourite linux distribution on it and it will work (albeit potentially quite slowly depending on the hardware). Are there any good reasons why Android and iOS are so much worse in this regard?

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#204

Post by mythrwy » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 12:20 AM UTC

bdamm wrote: post #89

squish78 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less reliance on the tech sector for hardware solutions, and more research in logistics and supply chain. Let farmers farm. They are proving that it can be done with more profitability acre-for-acre with hand tools than tractors https://www.neversinkfarm.com/

That is patently absurd. There is a reason why nearly every corn and wheat farm has a combine.

A lot of times agronomic crop farmers don't own harvest machinery at all. They grow the crop then contract the harvest (or alternatively sell the harvest in the field).

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#205

Post by detaro » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 12:21 AM UTC

ShroudedNight wrote: post #199

Balanceinfinity wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

agreed. But when they purchased the machines, they should have looked at the services terms and taken that into account when making their purchases. If there's competition in the market (no idea) then presumably someone would try to beat its competitors by offering a better service option (such as unlocked diagnostics). This issue went to the supreme court on the question of whether a manufacturer could "monopolize"…

Link is missing the trailing period: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastman_Kodak_Co._v._Image_Tec... . FWIW, I had to add an extra period at the end to get the original one to get included as part of the link.

another possible trick is urlencoding the dot as %2E: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastman_Kodak_Co._v._Image_Tec...

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#206

Post by doubt_me » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 12:22 AM UTC

takeda wrote: post #193

eastof wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can get really good support from Lineage OS for years to come. Been running it on all my android devices for years. The flagship models like Pixel usually have the best ongoing support.

Are there any flagship models that still have phone jack and an sdcard? Supposedly there's so many Android phones but all are removing things. You can get phones with these, but then their support doesn't last long and generally no one cares about maintaining a replacement OS like Lineage OS. My ideal phone would have: - size that does fit in a hand - phone jack - sdcard - hardware keyboard - ir blaster - stereo spea…

Asus 2018+

Idk about rooting tho. That's a maybe. If I could throw down 500$+ I'd be able to find out.

My LG v20 was purchased the week it came out cause I'm an audiophile. This thing is literally bullet proof and 100$ now. Best phone I've ever owned. Still using it. Rooted n debloated stock ROMs are all I'm interested in all the custom ones never get updates correctly.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#207

Post by to11mtm » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 12:23 AM UTC

jandrese wrote: post #155

sangnoir wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Have I missed anyone? "Security-minded" folk who insist corporates should have full control of their device via signed code from pre-boot, incidentally preventing "non-authorised" replacement parts from working since repair is an attack vector, allegedly.

What's the threat model for a tractor/harvester/etc...? Who wants to send a piece of farm equipment on a very slow rampage via a complex and difficult hack job? One that will be stopped if the manufacturer has any sense at all and has physical kill switch. Maybe sabotage from competing farmers? But that seems far less likely than the owner wanting to maintain his equipment after the manufacturer has abandoned it.

Devils advocating here, but they could always use the boogeyman of China wanting to disrupt our exports via espionage.

Remember, doesn't have to be likely, just has to be a good headline.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#208

Post by ssivark » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 12:24 AM UTC

takeda wrote: post #196

Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Librem phones can't come soon enough.

The issue there is that you're missing the app ecosystem. Without it, why not just use a "dumb" phone?

The app ecosystem is just a matter of time, once there exists a solid foundation. We need the breakthrough device that will make it possible to get started.

Consider Linux on the desktop. For about a decade after it became popular (late 90s) ie till late 2000s, the user experience was crappy, and the app ecosystem was sparse. But they developed so well over the next ten years that in many ways Linux today is more user-friendly than Windows/OS-X.

Enough people want it, and it will happen. And as it happens, more and more people will want it... especially since popular mobile platforms provide less freedom than the desktop ones.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#209

Post by wishinghand » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 12:25 AM UTC

p1necone wrote: post #203

cletus wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So here is an area where Apple is significantly better than Android. The original Pixel is just over 3 years old and is now EOL for official releases. iOS 13 (current version) has minimum hadware of the iPhone 6S, released September 2015. That may only be a year but it will continue to receive iOS 13 updates for probably another year or so at least (rumour has it iOS 14 will be released late 2020 and no one yet knows…

This is still garbage compared to Windows and Linux though. You can take basically any x86 computer from more than a decade ago and install modern Windows or your favourite linux distribution on it and it will work (albeit potentially quite slowly depending on the hardware). Are there any good reasons why Android and iOS are so much worse in this regard?

The market will bear it. Especially in the age of subsidized phones people didn’t mind the cost as much. This may change with $1000+ flagship phones.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#210

Post by cletus » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 12:26 AM UTC

What many people may not realize is just how long-lived a lot of farm equipment is. There will be tractors out there still working that are 75 years old and just keep getting repaired.

Obviously the manufacturers would like to sell those farmers tractors more often than that or, in the very least, generate a revenue stream from existing hardware and honestly that's what I see a lot of computing in vehicles as being: nothing more than guaranteeing a revenue stream. It'll get marketed and sold as "efficiency" but the manufacturers are capturing those (alleged) efficiency gains by charging farmers to repair them.

This is also the case with GM crops too. For years, farmers cultivated seeds and replanted them for the next year's harvest. GM crops are typically constructed so they're not fertile beyond the current generation. Why? So the farmer has to re-buy the seed stock from the manufacturer.