Indiana man charged with theft for removing police tracking device from car • Hacker News Board

Re: Indiana man charged with theft for removing police tracking device from car

#201

Post by rosybox » Fri, Nov 22, 2019, 6:35 PM UTC

joe_the_user wrote: post #92

rosybox wrote: post #56

However you may feel about the theft charge, if you find a tracker on your car, don't take it off. It's an occasion to call the police. Someone is either committing a crime by tracking you illegally or you're letting the police know you found their tracker. Maybe they'll remove it, as once the tracker is known to exist it's useless. If you want to go the route of civil disobedience and take it off on moral grounds, y…

It should be noted that the tracker did not say "property of the police" and if even it had, there's no way to know if it was the police (since cops don't tell people they're being investigated and someone else could put a stamp on their own tracker. And it's one police unit that has placed the tracker, dispatch or whoever you might call, won't know which unit placed the item or whether a unit did). From article: "'W…

> "'What if it’s not the police’s tracker device?' asked Justice Geoffrey Slaughter. 'What if instead it belongs to the jilted girlfriend or the nosy neighbor? Is it also theft if he removes that device from his vehicle?'"

The thing to do is to call the police.

Re: Indiana man charged with theft for removing police tracking device from car

#202

Post by logfromblammo » Fri, Nov 22, 2019, 6:39 PM UTC

m463 wrote: post #63

baroffoos wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that also lets me order more Doritos hands free!

I wonder if you could eat doritos hands free too? Could you have a dorito launcher that would hit your mouth every time? On the other hand, it might be risky to combine voice command with dorito's launch since they both use the same orifice for I/O.

I eat Doritos and Cheetos with chopsticks. It keeps the flavoring detritus off the fingers.

Re: Indiana man charged with theft for removing police tracking device from car

#203

Post by Spooky23 » Fri, Nov 22, 2019, 6:48 PM UTC

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #191

Spooky23 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have protocols for that and generally follow them.

Ambulances, sure. Firefighters? Yeah, usually. Cops? You'll have to convince me if you are talking about midwestern American cops. I know they go through lights... because. Or they'll hurry to something non-vital, where there is no one getting hurt, yet scurry none-the-less. I never realized how common this sort of thing was - lights and freaking sound - until I moved away.

Are you listening to the police scanner or something? How do you know where or how they have been dispatched?

I live in a small northeast city off of an avenue where there are two trauma centers, a firehouse that does about 5,000 calls/year and a police HQ. I see and hear plenty of these vehicles. When you see it enough, you can spot the different patterns in how police, ambulances and fire trucks respond.

Re: Indiana man charged with theft for removing police tracking device from car

#204

Post by rosybox » Fri, Nov 22, 2019, 6:49 PM UTC

logfromblammo wrote: post #200

really3452 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you are a drug dealer it is an occasion to hide your supply extra hard. I suspect he did. Most likely the police planted the glass pipe that was found when searching for the tracking device so that they could obtain permission from the judge for the second search.

I upvoted this specifically so the people who still believe in the essential lawfulness of police would have a better chance of seeing it. The slang term is "testilying". There is low conditional probability that a drug dealer smart enough to locate and remove a GPS tracker would put it in the same physical locker compartment as a crack pipe after taking it off. Were I the judge, I would be especially wary of "automa…

> so the people who still believe in the essential lawfulness of police

Your jaded perception of police is mistaken. You just hate the police and your argument doesn't make any sense.

> Ask to see the glass pipe they found. Ask to see the photograph of it in situ next to the tracking device. Compare it very closely to evidence taken from previous drug cases. When the cops are unable to back up their bullshit story, throw their whole case out and cite someone for perjury.

You want the judge to rule on a comparison of previous drug cases of how people store their drug pipes? The police need to back up their "bullshit" story because of this drug dealer didn't follow the drug pipe storage protocol others follow?

Re: Indiana man charged with theft for removing police tracking device from car

#205

Post by Clubber » Fri, Nov 22, 2019, 7:32 PM UTC

tsimionescu wrote: post #192

Clubber wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Getting rightly accused of possession of light drugs and ending up in prison is a much worse outcome, and it happens to many, many times more people. Can we just agree that both are a perversion of our justice system? Blackstone's formula, "Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer" was very influential do the people who designed our initial legal system. The reason it is important is that…

But public opprobrium for a presumption of guilt is not a part of the justice system. Also, the prevalence of this problem you are raising is extremely small in reality. The opposite is still much more likely - people who are guilty of various crimes who escape unpunished both by the justice system but also from public scrutiny.

"University of Michigan law professor Samuel Gross led a team of experts in the law and in statistics that estimated the likely number of unjust convictions. The study, published in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences determined that at least 4% of people on death row were and are likely innocent. Gross has no doubt that some innocent people have been executed.[18][19]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_execution

It seems small unless you are one of the 4%, that's just direct affect to the individual and their family. The indirect effect to you and me is lawlessness.

"It is of more importance to the community that innocence should be protected, than it is, that guilt should be punished; for guilt and crimes are so frequent in this world, that all of them cannot be punished....when innocence itself, is brought to the bar and condemned, especially to die, the subject will exclaim, 'it is immaterial to me whether I behave well or ill, for virtue itself is no security.' And if such a sentiment as this were to take hold in the mind of the subject that would be the end of all security whatsoever"

- John Adams, Defending British soldiers charged with murder for their role in the Boston Massacre

For the record, I think it's a travesty that people get thrown in jail for petty crimes, or that petty crimes in general have become felonies, sold by politicians who want to appear "tough on crime." I don't think it serves either purpose to try to rank them.

Re: Indiana man charged with theft for removing police tracking device from car

#206

Post by SuoDuanDao » Fri, Nov 22, 2019, 7:56 PM UTC

afthonos wrote: post #90

2804t3qwp wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a fair criticism, and in line with the comment I replied to, but I still don't know if I agree with the overall sentiment of cynacism. While I'll give you the leaks about Prism/Five Eyes/Mail Espionage (the original government surveillance!), etc. the same documents are in line with what a pattern of being motivated by a fear of being unprepared to defend the greater society from upheaval would look like. Obv…

I’m not sure anyone is really engaging you here, so let me give it a go. Three years ago, I was you. I thought I wasn’t blind to the problems in the US, but that we fundamentally had a solid system that did its best. Insofar as racial injustice permeated the system, that was a product of racist cops/prosecutors, but a problem that would solve itself as better, younger people, with fewer prejudices, slowly rotated in.…

I would add a factor to that - America, in a mythic sense, does not have a good relationship with authority. Perhaps for historic reasons, it is not a country where authority is really respected... and so I think, there is a bit more expectation of authority being abused by those who have it than in countries where people in positions of authority are expected to hold themselves to a higher standard.

Re: Indiana man charged with theft for removing police tracking device from car

#207

Post by freeopinion » Fri, Nov 22, 2019, 8:29 PM UTC

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #168

DagAgren wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So which do you think makes more sense: Police are not allowed to arrest people, or everyone is allowed to arrest?

Everyone is allowed to arrest. Police only get that power as an extension of their citizenship. There was a curious case a few years back of a non-citizen who had been a military police officer and became a civilian cop because nobody checked his documentation. His military activities were perfectly legal but all arrests made as a civilian were invalid.

There's also the case of the lady in Florida who pulled the police officer over for speeding.

Re: Indiana man charged with theft for removing police tracking device from car

#208

Post by Broken_Hippo » Fri, Nov 22, 2019, 8:55 PM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #203

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ambulances, sure. Firefighters? Yeah, usually. Cops? You'll have to convince me if you are talking about midwestern American cops. I know they go through lights... because. Or they'll hurry to something non-vital, where there is no one getting hurt, yet scurry none-the-less. I never realized how common this sort of thing was - lights and freaking sound - until I moved away.

Are you listening to the police scanner or something? How do you know where or how they have been dispatched? I live in a small northeast city off of an avenue where there are two trauma centers, a firehouse that does about 5,000 calls/year and a police HQ. I see and hear plenty of these vehicles. When you see it enough, you can spot the different patterns in how police, ambulances and fire trucks respond.

1. I know the cops do the light thing simply by knowing a few cops.

2. I don't know where they are dispactched or anything. I could tell the difference between sirens though.

3. I know not all dispatches are emergencies that need lights, sounds, or running lights. If someone has broken into your business, for example, and the person is no longer there, there is no need for speed, lights, and so on. I'm in a larger city in another country now... and there are less sirens and stuff here. It is really weird. I know they respond and the crime rate is probably lower, but... priorities are different as well. I generally didn't see the same patterns with fire trucks and ambulances in the states, and honestly never had a complaint about them. Just the police.

Edited to add an afterthought.

Re: Indiana man charged with theft for removing police tracking device from car

#209

Post by AnimalMuppet » Fri, Nov 22, 2019, 9:08 PM UTC

A long time ago, there was this thing where businesses would mail you something that you had in no way asked to receive. They would assert that you bought it if you didn't mail it back. (The mailing came with paperwork asserting this.) I forget whether it was due to court cases or legislation, but that doesn't fly anymore.

I wonder if that provides any kind of precedent for this case?

Re: Indiana man charged with theft for removing police tracking device from car

#210

Post by MFLoon » Fri, Nov 22, 2019, 10:29 PM UTC

logfromblammo wrote: post #200

really3452 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you are a drug dealer it is an occasion to hide your supply extra hard. I suspect he did. Most likely the police planted the glass pipe that was found when searching for the tracking device so that they could obtain permission from the judge for the second search.

I upvoted this specifically so the people who still believe in the essential lawfulness of police would have a better chance of seeing it. The slang term is "testilying". There is low conditional probability that a drug dealer smart enough to locate and remove a GPS tracker would put it in the same physical locker compartment as a crack pipe after taking it off. Were I the judge, I would be especially wary of "automa…

> Were I the judge...

Your mental model of a typical American judges values is, unfortunately, unrepresentative in the extreme.