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Some users say they're getting rid of Fitbit because they don't trust Google

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Re: Some users say they're getting rid of Fitbit because they don't trust Google

#201

Post by stjohnswarts »

MichaelApproved wrote: post #19

Classic example of an article in search of a movement. Take a handful of tweets that share an opinion and write an article that makes it seem like there's a mass exodus. It's ok, you don't need anything more than a handful of tweets to back your claim. Yes, some people are privacy conscious and are going to stop using Fitbit but how many are actually doing it? A lot? A few? Who knows. I'm sure author has no clue but…

I might believe it but I never hear anyone worrying about google having their data other than my fellow computer nerds. Your average American not so much. I hear a few of them talking about not putting anything on facebook that you don't want someone to see, but other than that they don't have a clue.

Re: Some users say they're getting rid of Fitbit because they don't trust Google

#202

Post by stjohnswarts »

Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #72
pmarreck wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never felt harmed or threatened by the idea that my anonymized data (health or otherwise) is being used by large organizations... assuming it is anonymized. As far as I can see, there are many good uses of this data (some potentially profitable, such as selling to health insurance companies so they can better price their products and evaluate risks) and very few bad uses of this data. Can someone please clarif…

Because it is -never - going to be anonymized. They are going to call it anonymized, and then publicly apologize for it not being so a couple of times, while keeping business as usual. There is just no incentive for them to anonymize it.

Yeah, I totally believe it can be anonymized, but when they attach geo data, age data, etc you can be picked out of the crowd with just a bit of analysis. Plus I don't think most of them actually anonymize it. They just say they do. There's no one auditing them until a court order happens.

Re: Some users say they're getting rid of Fitbit because they don't trust Google

#203

Post by ok_coo »

pfortuny wrote: post #160
jasonvorhe wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) why would a company remove that systems? They've been practically leak free since they started. Why risk the public outcry if a junior developer walks out with a couple of terabytes of personal data because they loosened access to such data without any clear advantage?

Because they are compelled by a different government from the present one.

One quick and easy example is China.

To echo what someone else said further up the thread, the fact that they have the data is a liability to people. Policies and protocols can change over time. Just because they have great data access protocols in place now doesn't mean it will always be that way.

What happens when the temptation for more profit becomes too great? There are plenty of companies who have (unknowingly) killed their golden goose for short-term profit.

Re: Some users say they're getting rid of Fitbit because they don't trust Google

#204

Post by JohnFen »

comfydragon wrote: post #189
JohnFen wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I'm very interested in this as well. My Pebble is still working fine, but the day will come when I need to replace it, and this is the only thing I've seen that looks like it might be able to do that. The page says that it's 5 years away from release, though.

Expected Release: Q1/Q2 2020, pending on development result I think the "Availability" note means how long they plan to support it and/or sell it.

Ah, thanks for the correction!

Re: Some users say they're getting rid of Fitbit because they don't trust Google

#205

Post by alleyshack »

devicetray0 wrote: post #181
alleyshack wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an Xoogler who worked on the privacy team a few years ago. All of this is true, and at the time I worked there, I made the conscious, considered decision to buy in to the Google data collection ecosystem because I trusted the people I worked with to protect my data. Several years out, I no longer trust Google - not because I trust my former (immediate) coworkers less, but because the direction the entire advertis…

> Several years out, I no longer trust Google - not because I trust my former (immediate) coworkers less, but because the direction It makes me uncomfortable that the data is always there, and the direction of the business just needs to change. Perhaps they're not being profitable enough for wall street? And on a time scale of 10 more years, I'm sure there will be a number of "incidents" in which teams were given app…

This is exactly why I'm one of the (probably many) silent switchers away from Fitbit now that this acquisition has happened. Whatever Google says now, in one or two or ten years, that could change, and my data will still be there.

> I'm sure there will be a number of "incidents" in which teams were given approval to use the data in unsavory ways.

This is my other concern, closely related to the first. Data companies (Google included) have a very different idea of what is "savory" w.r.t data usage. Not from a place of malice, necessarily, but innocence/privilege/not thinking about the consequences.

Let's say the engineers are building a data-using feature, such as one which takes Fitbit health data and links it to your medical record to recommend tests or interventions that might benefit you. Those engineers may only think about how many lives this will save - the benefits of sharing this data. Because there are some benefits, for some people, in that use case. The problem is when those engineers do not consider all the many ways that sharing could go wrong, and how many other people could be hurt. Discrimination, denial of insurance, stalking, etc.

Personally, I think it would be incredibly beneficial for most software engineers to spend time learning hacking and adversarial thinking. Teaching the people who build these features to think about how the features could, and will, be misused would likely help them build better, safer features. (/soapbox :) )

Re: Some users say they're getting rid of Fitbit because they don't trust Google

#206

Post by justinclift »

opencl wrote: post #139
Bartweiss wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similarly: even if a nontrivial number of people are dumping wearable trackers, is there evidence that it's disproportionately happening now or to Fitbit because of Google ? My first guess would be "as data breaches and abuses hit the news, people are more skeptical of wearable trackers in general". I've heard several people talk about getting hit by the MyFitnessPal security breach or Strava revealing army bases; it…

There's also the option of open source fitness tracker apps that don't upload your data anywhere, i.e. Gadgetbridge which I use.

GadgetBridge main website:

https://gadgetbridge.org

Looks interesting, hadn't come across it before.

Re: Some users say they're getting rid of Fitbit because they don't trust Google

#207

Post by heavyset_go »

pmarreck wrote: post #50
Retric wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know about anyone else, but I just got rid of my Fitbit and never spoke of it on social media. My guess is it’s limited a few thousand to low tens of thousands of people which is not economically meaningful on it’s own. But, it does show another side of the privacy debate. Many companies are selling data not because it’s significant revenue, but rather because they have no reason to leave money on the table.…

I have never felt harmed or threatened by the idea that my anonymized data (health or otherwise) is being used by large organizations... assuming it is anonymized. As far as I can see, there are many good uses of this data (some potentially profitable, such as selling to health insurance companies so they can better price their products and evaluate risks) and very few bad uses of this data. Can someone please clarif…

> Please explain to me my naiveté here.

There is nearly zero incentive to actually your anonymize data, and anonymization doesn't make you anonymous.

This is a lesson we should have learned more than a decade ago[1], when AOL released their anonymized search data for research purposes, and thousands of people were trivially identified using it.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AOL_search_data_leak

Re: Some users say they're getting rid of Fitbit because they don't trust Google

#208

Post by catalogia »

JohnFen wrote: post #152
Retric wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know about anyone else, but I just got rid of my Fitbit and never spoke of it on social media. My guess is it’s limited a few thousand to low tens of thousands of people which is not economically meaningful on it’s own. But, it does show another side of the privacy debate. Many companies are selling data not because it’s significant revenue, but rather because they have no reason to leave money on the table.…

> I don’t know about anyone else, but I just got rid of my Fitbit and never spoke of it on social media. I only know two people who use Fitbits, and both of them have ditched them. I agree that the number of people doing this is likely small, but such people certainly do exist, and they aren't incredibly rare.

My mother had a fitbit and has gotten rid of it. She didn't mention it on social media because she dislikes social media companies and chooses to avoid them, which seems related to her decision to avoid Google-owned fitbit.

So there is a selection bias in play. Many of the people who dislike google enough to get rid of their fitbit quite possibly also dislike social media and won't be reflected in statistics gleaned from social media.

Re: Some users say they're getting rid of Fitbit because they don't trust Google

#209

Post by pnw_hazor »

SilkRoadie wrote: post #146
MichaelApproved wrote: post #19

Classic example of an article in search of a movement. Take a handful of tweets that share an opinion and write an article that makes it seem like there's a mass exodus. It's ok, you don't need anything more than a handful of tweets to back your claim. Yes, some people are privacy conscious and are going to stop using Fitbit but how many are actually doing it? A lot? A few? Who knows. I'm sure author has no clue but…

I stopped using my Fitbit the day they were acquired. Didn't feel the need to tweet or exclaim about it. You may be surprised at the total number.

I did the same for my Nest cams -- don't have a twitter account so maybe I don't count?

Re: Some users say they're getting rid of Fitbit because they don't trust Google

#210

Post by pbalau »

I find this very naive. The op is not trusting Google because someone told them not to trust Google. They were trusting Fitbit because nobody told them not to.

How did Fitbit make their money to pay for the online services? Only from selling devices? You really believe that?

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