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1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

nytimes.com

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Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#201

Post by Udik »

paulmd wrote: post #186
Udik wrote: post #95

A few days ago, in the context of first drone delivery by Google, I asked why don't we build infrastructure (pipes + automatic pods going through them) to deliver grocery-sized packages. Sounds like a literal pipe dream, but I'm not convinced the economics wouldn't work. Deliveries could take a matter of minutes and the network could be expanded at will, starting with a few neighborhood delivery spots. At a price of…

It's been done... operated 1897 to 1953, replaced by auto delivery. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumatic_tube_mail_in_New_Yor...

Yes, I hear that every time I mention this. It is a lazy objection: the only things vaguely similar between the pneumatic tubes of the past and the ones I'm talking about are the pipes and the pods.

Specifically, in those systems the pods were moved by compressed air: today they could just be electric and autonomous. They needed to be routed manually at intermediate stations, now they could just reach their destination automatically. Only five pods a minute could travel on those pipes, but electric drive means each pod can keep a minimum distance from the one before. There would be no need for engine rooms with air compressors spaced along the route. Etc.

Basically, you can think of it as autonomous driving on a dedicated road any without obstacles.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#202

Post by baud147258 »

CydeWeys wrote: post #32
booleandilemma wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m all for anything that will get bikers off the sidewalks.

You don't see too much of that in Manhattan, because the sidewalks are so crowded with pedestrians that they're terrible places to be on a bike. But yes, in general, creating safe, protected bike lanes is an excellent way to increase safety for everyone. I've heard people complain about cyclists on the sidewalks in locations that lacked bike lanes and had speeding motor traffic, and the cyclist clearly felt unsafe ri…

Well, in my commute before I moved closer to work, I had to cross a bridge, with sidewalks on each side of the bridge. One of the sidewalk is a bike lane, so completely separated from the road; I'd walk on the other sidewalk, as many other people do as it's between a subway and a tram stop. But then nearly everyday, there would be cyclist that couldn't be arsed to take their bike lane, preferring to zigzag between pedestrians.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#203

Post by delfinom »

oogali wrote: post #92
apostacy wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UPS already tried doing this a few years ago in Brooklyn,[1] but not Manhattan apparently. I was subjected to this a few years ago. Instead of being greeted at the end of the day with my shiny new $300 phone, they left it in a pile on the filthy floor of a local bodega three blocks away. Then, after finding it, I have to wait in line and have my ID scanned and sign for it. And I paid for overnight shipping but if I d…

Are you talking about UPS Access Points? If so, that is definitely available in Manhattan as I’ve had packages routed to them willingly (I requested it) and unwillingly (driver was too busy to complete deliveries that day). It started out with the access points being fairly ubiquitous and available at local bakeries, coffee shops, etc. But in recent years, it’s been scaled back to the local UPS Store locations. But i…

>But in recent years, it’s been scaled back to the local UPS Store locations.

Alot of it is due to UPS Stores. They are franchised. Many owners got extremely upset, betrayed and were threatening to quit because UPS was making them pay all the fees for franchising and proceed to start screwing them over by involving others for basically free.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#204

Post by delfinom »

jliptzin wrote: post #66

Last month I was moving out of an apartment in midtown. My entire block, avenue to avenue, is a no standing zone for some reason. The doorman said it was just changed a couple years ago. I rented a moving truck, parked it in a garage for $60 while I finished packing up, moved the truck to the building entrance where UPS/Fedex trucks are constantly parking, put the hazards on and loaded up the truck with my stuff as f…

UPS pays the fines in bulk at a discount. They don't care and price it into the shipping cost.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#205

Post by delfinom »

vageli wrote: post #51
CydeWeys wrote: post #5

A few thoughts as a bike commuter in Manhattan who sees this first hand every day: The congestion tax can't come soon enough (and it should have no carve-outs, certainly not for people who live here). We need to get rid of lots of free on-street parking in the city and replace it with loading zones so that taxis/Ubers and trucks have free spaces on every block to conduct their business without blocking travel lanes o…

> And the second solution is make the penalties on trucks meaningful. Have the fine amounts escalate with every violation within a certain period, with no cap (so that a ticket could eventually cost tens of thousands of dollars for a particular scofflaw truck, rather than the current ignorable amount of around a hundred). And tow/confiscate trucks that have enough tickets. Part of the reason these companies can get a…

The problem is, many companies would just price the tickets into the cost of delivery, the same way they already do but just more. Alternatively,a company like UPS could basically completely implode and deadlock the NYC courts by contesting every single ticket individually. They have enough money to play chicken with the city, and the city will lose almost immediately.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#206

Post by wan23 »

nemo44x wrote: post #184
jcranmer wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You haven't given any actual reasons why someone needs a car so badly that the government ought to subsidize their ownership of one. Having small kids is not enough--and yes, I am well acquainted with the logistics of traveling with infants and toddlers. Even needing to drive for your job isn't enough: if a car is a requisite part of the job, it's the employer's responsibility to provide materials or sufficient compe…

Why do we need bike lanes? Why should the government subsidize them? Use public transit. Bike lanes are absolutely not subsidized by the bike riding tax base. It’s a hand out. It’s the exact same thing. People with cars need to park them. Many people can’t afford a garage. You don’t own the street spot and have to move it daily. Many street parkers have to walk many blocks to their cars. Regardless of why people have…

Bike lanes are not equivalent to parking spaces - they're equivalent to roads. The government certainly subsidizes the streets and avenues in the city. They would be much cheaper to maintain if more of them were restricted to being pedestrian and bicycle only, but then as usual people with cars would complain about losing their free access.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#207

Post by dwild »

CydeWeys wrote: post #27
skizm wrote: post #18

> They racked up more than 471,000 parking violations last year... I knew someone who owned a trucking company. They had a lawyer on retainer and every month or so they would gather all the parking tickets, go to a judge (or city official) and cut a deal to pay a fraction of the actual owed amount for all the tickets. This is because, if they did not comply, each ticket would be fought tooth and nail, and the city wo…

This is common in NYC. The biggest violators should be paying the most, but instead, they pay the least per violation because they bargain down the fines. Here's a pretty typical fine record for a truck that was illegally parked in the bike lane during my commute this week: https://twitter.com/CydeWeys/status/1188467550822293512 (expand all replies) And note how they're getting a reduction in fines: https://twitter.c…

This is crazy, in 3 days they got 46 fines!

How much is a parking fine though in NYC? His average is 69.44$. I'm Canadian and my last parking ticket was 63$ CAD (47.71$ USD).

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#208

Post by nemo44x »

wan23 wrote: post #206
nemo44x wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do we need bike lanes? Why should the government subsidize them? Use public transit. Bike lanes are absolutely not subsidized by the bike riding tax base. It’s a hand out. It’s the exact same thing. People with cars need to park them. Many people can’t afford a garage. You don’t own the street spot and have to move it daily. Many street parkers have to walk many blocks to their cars. Regardless of why people have…

Bike lanes are not equivalent to parking spaces - they're equivalent to roads. The government certainly subsidizes the streets and avenues in the city. They would be much cheaper to maintain if more of them were restricted to being pedestrian and bicycle only, but then as usual people with cars would complain about losing their free access.

Where are people supposed to park their cars? Streets need parking spots or the streets are sort of pointless. Parking garages are too expensive for some people and in addition why should the parking garages have a monopoly on parking spaces? And with no on-street parking the cost of garages would sky rocket with demand, as if they weren't expensive enough already.

I'm not anti-bike lane but people who want to ride bikes here are a fantastically small anomaly of the city and dedicating so much space to them is absurd. Even people that don't own cars use on-street parking when we have to rent a car or have friends and family coming into town that for many reasons can't take public transit.

Build bike lanes on the main crossing streets and every other avenue and that seems like a fair compromise. If you don't feel safe riding your bike in the street when you have to, then leave the bike lane then walk your bike on the sidewalk.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#209

Post by nemo44x »

jcranmer wrote: post #195
nemo44x wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do we need bike lanes? Why should the government subsidize them? Use public transit. Bike lanes are absolutely not subsidized by the bike riding tax base. It’s a hand out. It’s the exact same thing. People with cars need to park them. Many people can’t afford a garage. You don’t own the street spot and have to move it daily. Many street parkers have to walk many blocks to their cars. Regardless of why people have…

I sometimes say that car drivers are the most entitled class I have met, and your response here is a classic example of what I mean by that. Any attempt to take a millimeter of space away from cars is an unacceptable war on cars; any attempt to improve the transportation experience for other modes of transportation of cars is a waste of money (or worse); any attempt to actually make drivers pay their way [1] is an un…

> At the end of the day, your arguments are not persuasive, because all you're really complaining about is that the transportation priority doesn't resolve around you.

I don't own a car. But I sympathize with people that do and many people need them for various reasons. In addition, restricting cars to the high income earners of the city is unjust.

And we all use the streets and parking spots more than we think. People need to park to deliver things to you, you may rent a car from time to time and need to park on the street, some people need cars to visit family that aren't near train lines, etc.

Streets are pointless without the ability to park your car. If that was the case then parking garages would have a monopoly and prices would increase with the demand. We need bike lanes too but keep them on some of the avenues and only the major cross streets. Ride on the street between those and if you don't feel safe doing that then walk your bike on the sidewalk when needed.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#210

Post by nicwolff »

> New York has sought to shift more truck deliveries to nights and weekends, when streets are emptier. About 500 companies, including pharmacies and grocery stores, deliver goods from 7 p.m. to 6 a.m., under a voluntary city program.

That program is Off-Hour Truck Delivery https://ohdnyc.com and I can't think of any easier change that would have such a salutary effect on NYC traffic. It should have been made mandatory as part of the bike and bus lane changes.

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