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Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

theregister.co.uk

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Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#201

Post by PunchTornado »

duxup wrote: post #30

I feel like discussing politics at work has always been something most folks try to avoid. On the other hand your company telling you not to is a whole other situation. I'm not sure a policy really solves much. Anyone who wouldn't think twice before discussing such things ... probabbly isn't going to read / care about the policy. It's one of those rules that no matter how well intentioned, I'm not sure it works well…

we discuss brexit every day at work. in my previous job too. i don't believe there is an office in Britain where brexit is not mentioned.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#202

Post by pfranz »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #37

I think this sounds very reasonable for the kind of tool that is being produced. Joel Spolsky has a great article on Big Macs vs Naked Chef https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2001/01/18/big-macs-vs-the-na... In there, he talks about bespoke development vs mass market products, using McDonald's Big Macs vs a chef. I think this provides a reasonable framework for approaching the present controversy. For example, if McDonal…

It's tough to make appropriate analogies (which are hyperbolic) without the topic being blasphemous. But companies like IBM, Hugo Boss, and Volkswagen still get talked about as supporting Nazis during WWII. BASF even has a page about their involvement manufacturing Zyklon B gas [1]. I do think you have a point of bespoke vs mass market, but I still think there's a line. Even in the bespoke category you hear about celebrities taking large paychecks to attend parties for questionable people and often get defended because they're not formally supporting them but are draining their wealth by some amount.

I think the difference might be a commodity relationship; nobody would question using Windows, but a business account with Microsoft would. Even with using Windows, if it was a prominent and ongoing thing I imagine people would expect Microsoft to intervene.

[1] https://www.basf.com/global/en/who-we-are/history/chronology...

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#203

Post by voxl »

ProfessorLayton wrote: post #168

Without trying to be inflammatory in any manner, I will say that it takes a certain level of privilege to say one shouldn’t discuss politics at work. If you disagree I’m happy to discuss this viewpoint rather than being downvoted to oblivion. Lots of issues are deemed “political”, but imagine you fall into one of the marginalized groups: — lgbt: Don’t discuss the possibility about being fired for your sexuality becau…

Preach. Politics being silenced in a work place is so short sighted and dumb. We should strive for a world where disagreement is not the end of a good working relationship, not one where crypto-politics is the new normal in the workplace. Because if you genuinely belief people want try to identify who is and isn't racist in a "conforming" way then you're delusional.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#204

Post by jlawson »

Nullabillity wrote: post #107
vowelless wrote: post #18

I am glad Dang changed the title as the original one was unnecessarily inflammatory. I don’t understand why it’s encouraged (in some companies) to discuss politics at work in a way that leads to internal issues. Purely from a commercial stance, team cohesion has a positive impact on people and product. Why do anything to disturb that? > Such a declaration could run afoul of legal boundaries in some circumstances. Whi…

> I don’t understand why it’s encouraged (in some companies) to discuss politics at work in a way that leads to internal issues. Purely from a commercial stance, team cohesion has a positive impact on people and product. Why do anything to disturb that? The health of the democracy is far more important than your company's profit margin. And besides, enforcing silence is still a political move that strongly favours th…

The health of democracy requires that individuals be able to speak their mind and advocate their beliefs.

This doesn't work if their livelihood is controlled by a group of hyper-intolerant political totalitarians.

What GitHub is doing is giving individuals rooms to breathe, think, and live. It's preventing the rule of the intolerant minority, the forced homogenization of thought and suppression of dissent. We banned these things from the government long ago; this is a good step towards reducing the power of non-governmental power centers in corporations to coerce speech and thought of people around them.

As a free-thinking person this would make me much more likely to want to work for GH. At a place like Google I know I'd have to be deeply closeted as others flagrantly denigrate my identity and ideas around me. Here at least everyone can be closeted together, and live in a pluralistic way with different beliefs alongside each other.

This is how we suppress constant political conflict. You just aren't allowed to go after people for who they are or what they believe; we accept differences. And reducing political speech at work helps with that.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#205

Post by pdonis »

eric_b wrote: post #32

I personally have no problem with them making this decision. I wish more companies would take stands like this. At least it's honest. Unlike the NBA and every other company with value statements they honor only when convenient or advantageous. Look, if you morally object to this, then don't use GitLab. If you think businesses should be held to a higher ethical standard than they are currently, get active with local o…

> If you think businesses should be held to a higher ethical standard than they are currently, get active with local or even national politics. Start a letter writing campaign to your elected officials. Do something productive.

I would say the productive thing to do would be to start your own business that holds itself to a higher ethical standard, and then out-compete the other businesses.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#206

Post by dvt »

brlewis wrote: post #157
dvt wrote: post #21

GitLab are being hypocritical[1][2]. Let's not pretend the "women in tech" and LGBT movements aren't political. Frankly, I think more women in tech and LGBT representation are probably good things, but GitLab is being profoundly disingenuous with their guidelines. To clarify my point: if you open the gates to the marketplace of ideas, make sure it's an actual marketplace . [1] https://about.gitlab.com/blog/2018/10/08…

Thank you for providing those links. In both cases gitlab is partnering with a non-profit organization that AFAICT is not lobbying to pass or repeal laws. I understood "politics" in the context of this article as being about election candidates, government actions, or changes to the law. These gitlab partnerships are only "political" in the sense that people who like to argue about politics also like to argue about t…

I disagree. Selling LGBT T-shirts and partnering with non-profits implies discussing both of these hot-button issues at work. The corollary is that only certain viewpoints will be allowed to be discussed at work, and that's how you end up with situations like James Damore.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#207

Post by sonotathrowaway »

ProfessorLayton wrote: post #168

Without trying to be inflammatory in any manner, I will say that it takes a certain level of privilege to say one shouldn’t discuss politics at work. If you disagree I’m happy to discuss this viewpoint rather than being downvoted to oblivion. Lots of issues are deemed “political”, but imagine you fall into one of the marginalized groups: — lgbt: Don’t discuss the possibility about being fired for your sexuality becau…

I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to 'order' than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice

- Letter from a Birmingham Jail [King, Jr.]

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#208

Post by Hamuko »

rubbingalcohol wrote: post #92
legostormtroopr wrote: post #19

Good to see that the very non-controversial opinion of “be neutral at work and treat customers equally” is being used to compare GitHub to IBM during Nazi Germany. Why can’t GitHub just provide code version control systems without concerning itself with who is writing code? Given the recent implosion of StackOverflow, less politics in tech is probably a good thing.

I'm not sure why you're getting downvoted but no comments addressing the points you raised. Can anyone provide an example of Nazi code being hosted on Gitlab? It might be nice to justify what otherwise looks like an absurd comparison made by this article. What would nazi code even look like? Or is "nazi" in this case just a catch-all for wrongthink?

What if for example the People's Republic of China was hosting its code on Gitlab? This is a state that has "re-education camps" (interment camps) for a specific group of people and it reported to be engaging in organ harvesting.

I don't find it too hard to draw parallels between Nazi Germany and China at the moment.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#209

Post by vowelless »

tom_mellior wrote: post #174
vowelless wrote: post #18

I am glad Dang changed the title as the original one was unnecessarily inflammatory. I don’t understand why it’s encouraged (in some companies) to discuss politics at work in a way that leads to internal issues. Purely from a commercial stance, team cohesion has a positive impact on people and product. Why do anything to disturb that? > Such a declaration could run afoul of legal boundaries in some circumstances. Whi…

> Being held to a political moral standard is tricky if you are not in the mainline political stance. That would make me quite uncomfortable. I go to work to support myself and my family. Don’t make that hard for me to do due to politics. This cuts both ways: If your employer is known to take millions from ICE to support what ICE does, and your opinion is that ICE is an evil organization, that can also make you "quit…

I would suggest leaving, in that case. If not your employer, some other company will fulfill that contract anyway.

Millions of people work in the defense industry. I did too, in a different life. I left due to moral reasons (Not that i am doing anything moral today).

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