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Soli

atap.google.com

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Re: Soli

#201

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

BinaryIdiot wrote: post #175
JamyDev wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I don't believe you, but I would like to see some sources on some of these claims you're making...

I mean, in theory you setup 3 WiFi base stations and you can use WiFi in roughly the same way. No where near as accurate, of course, but you can easily figure out which areas of the house a person is in. I don't see why this wouldn't be an even better way to do the same thing.

Assuming all this tech is actively and deliberately spying on you, wouldn't your phone in your pocket provide the same information?

Re: Soli

#202

Post by spectramax »

jacobolus wrote: post #176
spectramax wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I edited and added Macbook trackpad example before your response. I agree when its done right, it works but those are rare examples. Vast majority of products do not go to the lengths that Apple does. > Even space, versatility, & cost aside, there are definitely tasks that a touch screen does better. Using a map with a touch screen is incredibly intuitive compared to a mouse. (I cannot imagine using sliders or other…

The space mouse is like a joystick or a thinkpad “trackpoint”. It doesn’t move around or measure movements of the body, but just uses force on it to control velocity. This is much less intuitive/effective than a direct movement. A mouse beats a trackpoint hands down for speed and precision in any context where mouse-user performance is important per se (the trackpoint’s advantage is that it is already directly under…

I totally disagree based on experience with using a CAD software for many years. A space mouse isn’t a trackpoint. It is a 6 degrees of freedom device that feels insanely natural once you get used to it.

There is a reason why professionals working on 3D software use a Space Mouse - animation studios to Boeing. Everyone got one when you start a new job.

You should try one if an opportunity comes up. Honestly, it will change your mind forever about what it does. And it’s nothing like a trackpoint, trackball or a joystick. I wish I could show it in person to you and blow all previous expectations.

Edit: a couple of things:

* Trackpoint: 2 axis device

* Trackball: 2 axis device

* Joystick: Usually 2 rotational axes, but you can get 3 axes (twist about Z-axis)

* Space Mouse: 6 axis device

You don't need to move things physically... try flipping through pages on iPad for 1 hour straight vs. using PageUp and PageDown keys on a keyboard. See it for yourself which one is more tiring.

Re: Soli

#203

Post by minton »

Fernicia wrote: post #89
spectramax wrote: post #51

Those growing up with Remote Controls of the kind: https://i.imgur.com/AIqz63k.jpg After a few days, the user develops a muscle memory of sorts. User doesn't even have to look at the controller and all actions (and feedback) are executed through the tactile interface. From cockpits to nuclear power plants to home tv remote control, there is absolutely nothing that replaces physical buttons, encoders, sliders and togg…

>there is absolutely nothing that replaces physical buttons, encoders, sliders and toggles Even space, versatility, & cost aside, there are definitely tasks that a touch screen does better. Using a map with a touch screen is incredibly intuitive compared to a mouse. (I cannot imagine using sliders or other "physical" interfaces) >A physical button guarantees that the action was performed by the means of feedback So y…

> So by this definition Apple is worse than Google for privacy?

Wait what? I think you have that backwards. Unless you’re suggesting Apple sells ads?

Re: Soli

#204

Post by GistNoesis »

JamyDev wrote: post #167
GistNoesis wrote: post #163

It is a nice piece of technology. It is a 60Ghz millimeter-wave radar. It is a privacy nightmare. It is already shipped. Radar uses electromagnetic waves (like Wifi but higher frequency) so it can go through walls, and even typical range for gesture recognition is less than meter, It probably can go at least 10 times as far by boosting the gain of the amplifier, it is not constrained like a theremin would be because…

Not that I don't believe you, but I would like to see some sources on some of these claims you're making...

I read the referenced papers : https://atap.google.com/soli/technology/

About 60Ghz technology : https://www.embedded.com/why-60ghz-mmwave-is-moving-into-the...

I've played with some 6Ghz 2$ microwave radar sensor and Software Defined Radios though I have not yet used 60Ghz.

Electromagnetic Waves are kind of magic when used in not conventional ways. I remember seeing the 2015 disney EM-sense video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpKDNle6ia4 which is a non-radar way to listen to the environment.

Re: Soli

#205

Post by pattisapu »

spectramax wrote: post #51

Those growing up with Remote Controls of the kind: https://i.imgur.com/AIqz63k.jpg After a few days, the user develops a muscle memory of sorts. User doesn't even have to look at the controller and all actions (and feedback) are executed through the tactile interface. From cockpits to nuclear power plants to home tv remote control, there is absolutely nothing that replaces physical buttons, encoders, sliders and togg…

Good points. Reminds me of an HN discussion about Star Trek: Voyager, where they build tactile, non-touchscreen controls for a shuttle, and there are backup tactile controls for when a crewman loses vision, for example--can still fly the ship etc.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20670810

Re: Soli

#206

Post by cushychicken »

0xffff2 wrote: post #115
landa wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Kinect caused a huge wave of innovation. It was a convenient and low-cost source of RGBD data, and many robotics labs got a few when it was released.

Could you expand on the result of said innovation? Where would I see Kinect driven innovation in everyday life?

Much of that technology was improved and miniaturized, and incorporated into the Apple Face ID bar at the top of the iPhone X.

Re: Soli

#207

Post by summerlight »

jasonhong wrote: post #119

I recently showed some videos of Soli in the HCI class I teach. Students immediately hit upon the two major issues I wanted to discuss (I was pretty proud!). The first is learnability. A big problem with gestures is that there is no clear affordance as to what kinds of gestures you can do, or any clear feedback. For feedback, one could couple Soli's input with a visual display, but at that point, it's not clear if th…

The second one seems more of a technical one and can be solved if Soli can reliably recognize user attention, which can effectively be a "hotword" for gesture. This is hard and not sure even it's feasible with this tech, but given all the excitements in this thread on potential privacy issues I guess it's doable :D

The first one seems more troublesome. This is less intuitive than touch screen based interface. The only way I see fighting against this is to standardize a set of generic gestures, map onto existing equivalent touch/voice actions and push it to the Android ecosystem. But not sure how many third party manufacturers will join this parade. Does this technology work well under screen? The industry is now obsessed with getting rid of notch and if Soli blocks this path then it will be a pretty hopeless fight.

Re: Soli

#208

Post by davidy123 »

lgleason wrote: post #49

It feels like a marketing gimmick vs a useful application. Probably will be cancelled in a year or two.

I have to agree. Something to get people to notice the handset, think it's unique, but it really doesn't add much value.

I paid for a Google Daydream headset. Half a year ago it stopped working on their supported device (Pixel 2 - driver issues). Now they say the Pixel 4 won't support Daydream because people weren't using it, of course they weren't if they don't support it properly. They release proto tech as marketing gimmicks, which they may have long term plans for, but it's not fair to ordinary consumers to create interim abandon ware like this.

Re: Soli

#209

Post by [deleted] »

Dirlewanger wrote: post #127
crazygringo wrote: post #25

Good lord... this is a really cool piece of technology and half the comments here are just complaints that it will enable better ad tracking or erode privacy or that touch screens are good enough. This is HN. This is cool technology . Can we just stop to appreciate what cool new interfaces or game concepts we might be able to build with this, rather than jumping on the knee-jerk Google hate train?

Unfortunately it's immanently stained by Google's association with it. Plus, it will probably be inexplicably dropped from the phone a couple models down the line.

[deleted]
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