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Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

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Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#201

Post by lm28469 »

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #142
lm28469 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, we, as tech workers. Most people aren't "us". It's perfectly understandable for places like the android/apple app stores to be heavily moderated. Same reasoning for forcing people to have their cars serviced by mechanics and not do their own maintenance in their backyards. Otherwise we'd have people driving cars without pipes and DIY break pads. I'd much rather have that enforced by megacorps/govt than by an inf…

The problem is the authoritarianism. You are advocating for totalitarian control as a solution to the possibility that some individuals might misbehave. If there is one thing we should have learned from history by now, it's that that's about the worst solution to a problem ever.

We're talking about an app store, not the Final solution. And as far as I know in developed countries companies still have to follow the law.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#202

Post by lm28469 »

jkilpatr wrote: post #126
lm28469 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, we, as tech workers. Most people aren't "us". It's perfectly understandable for places like the android/apple app stores to be heavily moderated. Same reasoning for forcing people to have their cars serviced by mechanics and not do their own maintenance in their backyards. Otherwise we'd have people driving cars without pipes and DIY break pads. I'd much rather have that enforced by megacorps/govt than by an inf…

In every other field people are reasonably held responsible for their failures. As a service tech if I fill a car with tomato sauce instead of oil I pay for the car. As a programmer I can sell all the users data, leak it to hacks, then laugh all the way to the bank. As a furniture salesman I can requirements on materials transparency. If I break those I'm liable. As a programmer I can totally change the rules of my a…

In which country are developers above the law ?

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#203

Post by dna_polymerase »

mimi89999 wrote: post #172
baxtr wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Totally broken implementation” is very close to BS, at least strongly exaggerated. They’re both highly successful distribution models. Of course, every system has downsides. You’re free not to participate

Really? It's basically impossible to distribute apps for iOS outside the AppStore and very difficult (all security, warranty warnings, settings, etc.) to distribute them outside the PlayStore.

Thankfully so. Apple keeps the App Store pretty clean, legacy apps, that are not maintained enough don't make it to the next iOS release and their capability system means I don't have to trust third party apps with anything.

Of course, there are cases that essentially suffer from this, but for me as a user, I've got to say I'm pretty satisfied.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#204

Post by Pxtl »

Steltek wrote: post #169
djsumdog wrote: post #138

The Apple/Play stores are essentially a totally broken implementation of something that had existed for over a decade before: package repositories. It's embraced and extended Linux/BSD package/ports trees, except without things like the ability to add a 3rd party repository with other authors signing keys, pin certain versions, etc. https://battlepenguin.com/tech/android-fragmentation/#packag... We could go on about…

Don't conflate Apple's monopoly with Google's store. Anyone can go install F-Droid or Amazon or whatever on their Android phone. The only thing stopping people is satisfaction with the status quo and/or ignorance. However, Apple totally rules their walled garden, with some added gross exploitation to boot (recent "Sherlocking" story for Luna Display).

I have to say, I'm really disappointed how few open-source projects are even on F-Droid. It feels like every time I hear about a new OSS android app, I look for it on F-Droid and find it's only on the Play Store.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#205

Post by Pxtl »

djsumdog wrote: post #138

The Apple/Play stores are essentially a totally broken implementation of something that had existed for over a decade before: package repositories. It's embraced and extended Linux/BSD package/ports trees, except without things like the ability to add a 3rd party repository with other authors signing keys, pin certain versions, etc. https://battlepenguin.com/tech/android-fragmentation/#packag... We could go on about…

I do wonder how crappy an opensource package repository would get if it faced the kind of sustained attack by con-men that Play & Apple have to deal with.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#206

Post by big_chungus »

SamBam wrote: post #198
lern_too_spel wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All Google phones and Android One devices have unlockable bootloaders.

Rooting the Pixel 2 (I haven't tried the other Pixels) is not trivial for the average user, it still involves downloading third-party software and doing stuff on the command line. I had hoped that the pure-Google devices would have just had a switch: "I am now root," but alas it wasn't to be.

I'm not sure that's important. If you make it too easy, it's a security hole. So, you have to wipe the device, which makes since in preventing a hostile actor from pressing the, "I am mow root" button and either dumping everything or installing malware. I also don't see an issue with google not putting a fancy gui front-end on their dev tools. They're built for advanced users, and in some ways, that's a barrier to entry to the avg. guy can't mess up his system or get phished into pressing the "root button."

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#207

Post by panpanna »

SamBam wrote: post #198
lern_too_spel wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All Google phones and Android One devices have unlockable bootloaders.

Rooting the Pixel 2 (I haven't tried the other Pixels) is not trivial for the average user, it still involves downloading third-party software and doing stuff on the command line. I had hoped that the pure-Google devices would have just had a switch: "I am now root," but alas it wasn't to be.

> not trivial for the average user

That is a very good thing. I wish they also made "install from unknown sources" a bit harder.

Don't get me wrong, I love openness. But there must be a barrier of entry.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#208

Post by aranelsurion »

djsumdog wrote: post #138

The Apple/Play stores are essentially a totally broken implementation of something that had existed for over a decade before: package repositories. It's embraced and extended Linux/BSD package/ports trees, except without things like the ability to add a 3rd party repository with other authors signing keys, pin certain versions, etc. https://battlepenguin.com/tech/android-fragmentation/#packag... We could go on about…

For a brief moment in time, there was an alternative in mobile space having best of the both worlds. Back then Nokia was still a thing, Meego/Maemo OSes on some -very few- Nokia devices had apt & rpm. Nokia repository would be there by default, and you could easily go and add any package repository through their UI. Just like good ol' Linux package managers, because it was one.

In fact this capability even enabled the community of these OSes to support the platform much longer than Nokia intended to. They made emulators, enabled hidden functionality (like FM Radio), even the bootloader was unlocked so you could go and install Android -but drivers were not open-source- if you wanted. It was liberating.

Too bad it got killed prematurely, and from its ashes Windows Phone was born.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#209

Post by degenerate »

hnarn wrote: post #56

> Sorry for the inconvenience. I'm sure many users are just as annoyed as I am. In the interim, luckily F-Droid has our app.[1] Thank heavens there's an alternate way of distributing apps on Android. Say what you want about Android vs. iOS, but at least there's an alternative if you as a consumer have a beef with Google Play. [1]: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.wireguard.android/

Even if the Play Store and F-Droid both disappeared, the replacement could be a community-run open directory of APKs sorted by version. At least we have options on Android.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#210

Post by chrisseaton »

black_puppydog wrote: post #171
Spivak wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it an abuse of their power? Google and Apple are essentially saying that if you use their store as a sales funnel then they take a 30% cut, and they enforce that by being the sole payment processor on the store. Basically Google and Apple both know that people will make more money by listing in their stores and taking a 30% cut than not listing at all.

1. most open source software is not even close to breaking even via donations. so "making more money" really is a misleading way to portrait the situation. 2. I hope we can agree that "if you use their store as a sales funnel then they take a 30% cut" is at least a use of their power. The fact that there's no recourse, no (practical) competition for the distribution, and that they're not acting in agreement with thei…

> In my opinion blackmailing the devs

I don’t know what you think the verb ‘to blackmail’ means, but nobody has been blackmailed or anything like it in this situation.

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