The Isle of Man is not in the UK • Hacker News Board

Re: The Isle of Man is not in the UK

#201

Post by robochat » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 9:31 PM UTC

joveian wrote: post #196

pytester wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That's not really much more information - revoke if the deal is not accepted? If the deal is not accepted, then referendum on may's deal vs remain, and they will campaign to remain. As I said. >What do they actually want from the deal? Single market and customs union as per the manifesto. >What is the party's true desired outcome, being in the EU or not being in the EU? Soft brexit. >It's very hard to form an accura…

Watching from the US, I agree that it is unreasonably being called confusing. However, you are leaving out the part where Labor has said they will end freedom of movement and the EU has said they will not agree to single market but no freedom of movement. So while the Labor position seems clear, it doesn't seem realistic and it is also unpopular with a large portion of the party (as would be any brexit position). Ant…

As a Brit watching from France, I have been a bit perplexed how the antisemitism issues have kept being brought up in the news. It reminds me a lot of Hilary's email server issues. Yes, there is a problem that needs addressing but it feels like some group is working hard to keep it in the news.

Corbyn and the people around him do seem to have a hardline feel to them. He seems unpragamatic and has had to fight against the more centralist elements of his own party, as well as being character assassinated relentlessly in the press. It's very unfortunate timing given how desirable it would have been to have a strong opposition during the last 3 years.

Re: The Isle of Man is not in the UK

#202

Post by cgiles » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 9:44 PM UTC

joveian wrote: post #196

pytester wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That's not really much more information - revoke if the deal is not accepted? If the deal is not accepted, then referendum on may's deal vs remain, and they will campaign to remain. As I said. >What do they actually want from the deal? Single market and customs union as per the manifesto. >What is the party's true desired outcome, being in the EU or not being in the EU? Soft brexit. >It's very hard to form an accura…

Watching from the US, I agree that it is unreasonably being called confusing. However, you are leaving out the part where Labor has said they will end freedom of movement and the EU has said they will not agree to single market but no freedom of movement. So while the Labor position seems clear, it doesn't seem realistic and it is also unpopular with a large portion of the party (as would be any brexit position). Ant…

> the part where Labor has said they will end freedom of movement

Yes, and it is still in their manifesto, live today. That is completely incompatible with the SM. In fact, that is precisely the issue that led TM to the WA that is currently on offer. Barnier's slides, linked above, show exactly what tier of EU association is on offer without FoM. Hint: it is a very, very low tier.

So the idea that JC will eliminate FoM and achieve any agreement substantially different than what TM already got is utter pixie dust.

> Antisemitism

The antisemitism stuff is utter hogwash, as in these days it is 95% of the time. Labour says, maybe Israel possibly isn't treating Palestinians in the most ideal way, and maybe annexing large swathes of territory and building settlements could be less than the greatest possible good. Result: they're antisemitic, want the destruction of Israel, and are basically Nazis. Just like in the US. Heaven help anyone who supports BDS. At bare minimum they won't be allowed to visit the free and democratic country of Israel.

Re: The Isle of Man is not in the UK

#203

Post by peteretep » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 11:37 PM UTC

the_watcher wrote: post #168

peteretep wrote: post #15

Isle of Man has zero percent corporate tax on (most) money earned outside the Isle of Man, which includes money earned in the UK. If you're a non-resident citizen of the UK, you can deposit your dividends from your Isle of Man company in your UK bank account, tax free. For the time being, IOM companies have GB VAT numbers, and a banking system that integrates seamlessly with the UK one, as well as a postal system (qu…

Can you actually use the money while you're not living in UK? To use a simple example, say I'm a British citizen living in the US who is a freelancer (let's assume I'm non-resident, not just non-domiciled). Let's say I have US citizenship as well to get around any immigration issues. I create a company in the Isle of Man (assume I meet whatever qualifications are needed to do this). Can I just deposit my checks in th…

> Can I just deposit my checks in the UK bank account, pay no taxes, and use the money in the US without violating any British laws? What about when traveling to the UK or EU?

Yes, but this isn’t particularly surprising — I’d expect it to work the same way everywhere. The Brits would love you to deposit your money into their banking system, and if you’re not resident in the UK and the income hasn’t arisen in the UK there’s no tax basis for it there.

In your scenario, the problem is American CFC rules, where they’ll effectively declare your IOM company to be an American company, and tax it on that basis. Also if you’re tax resident somewhere (the US in your example), they’ll usually tax your worldwide income (although jurisdictions vary). Finally, though, if you’re an American citizen, it doesn’t matter where you’re tax resident, you still owe the IRS.

Re: The Isle of Man is not in the UK

#204

Post by joveian » Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 1:00 AM UTC

cgiles wrote: post #202

joveian wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watching from the US, I agree that it is unreasonably being called confusing. However, you are leaving out the part where Labor has said they will end freedom of movement and the EU has said they will not agree to single market but no freedom of movement. So while the Labor position seems clear, it doesn't seem realistic and it is also unpopular with a large portion of the party (as would be any brexit position). Ant…

> the part where Labor has said they will end freedom of movement Yes, and it is still in their manifesto, live today. That is completely incompatible with the SM. In fact, that is precisely the issue that led TM to the WA that is currently on offer. Barnier's slides, linked above, show exactly what tier of EU association is on offer without FoM. Hint: it is a very, very low tier. So the idea that JC will eliminate F…

I agree about the deal; I think brexit would look different under Labor but that would mostly be in terms of UK law and less the agreement with the EU. In terms of the future relationship it seems like Labor would aim for customs union plus whatever they can get (as you say not much, although maybe something due to closer regulatory alignment in some areas). The withdrawal agreement seems unlikely to change.

I support BDS but I don't agree that is the main issue with Labor. The main issue I see is bullying personal comments that MPs make to each other and sometimes in public (similar to sexism, also a major issue) and the particularly bad way Corbyn has responded to it. In general, even when BDS is involved it is often the particular language used that is the issue (and many people who support BDS are also antisemitic). Some people argue that BDS is inherently antisemitic, but I don't see that being much of the issue with Labor (or in the US).

Re: The Isle of Man is not in the UK

#205

Post by peteretep » Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 4:38 AM UTC

marcus_holmes wrote: post #197

sokoloff wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I think it does matter. It's arbitrary and capricious if HMRC can change the rules and retroactively apply them. It's totally reasonable (absent a statute of limitations lapse) IMO for them to go back and retroactively enforce rules that you weren't following once they detect that. (I would even entertain that it would be unreasonable for them to not do so.)

not from my point of view. I don't know all the tax rules (no-one does, not even a specialist tax consultant or a HMRC employee). The different between a rule that isn't enforced and not-a-rule is meaningless. The difference between a rule that isn't enforced and a rule that no-one is aware of is meaningless. Like I said, I obeyed all the rules, and then one was retroactively applied. It really doesn't matter whether…

> I don't know all the tax rules

Generally, in almost every country, you need to declare your income, including that from abroad.

Claiming that knowing that is in any way equivalent to knowing all the tax rules is massively disingenuous.

Re: The Isle of Man is not in the UK

#206

Post by anoncake » Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 7:49 AM UTC

sgt101 wrote: post #108

nicoburns wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is my main reason for supporting the European Union. Individual countries aren't big enough to have serious power against tax-avoiding corporation/citizens. But the EU is.

like China!

China is a dictatorship.

Re: The Isle of Man is not in the UK

#207

Post by marcus_holmes » Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 9:17 AM UTC

peteretep wrote: post #205

marcus_holmes wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not from my point of view. I don't know all the tax rules (no-one does, not even a specialist tax consultant or a HMRC employee). The different between a rule that isn't enforced and not-a-rule is meaningless. The difference between a rule that isn't enforced and a rule that no-one is aware of is meaningless. Like I said, I obeyed all the rules, and then one was retroactively applied. It really doesn't matter whether…

> I don't know all the tax rules Generally, in almost every country, you need to declare your income, including that from abroad. Claiming that knowing that is in any way equivalent to knowing all the tax rules is massively disingenuous.

This was income earned abroad. The rules are often different for that.

Re: The Isle of Man is not in the UK

#208

Post by the_watcher » Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 6:06 PM UTC

peteretep wrote: post #203

the_watcher wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you actually use the money while you're not living in UK? To use a simple example, say I'm a British citizen living in the US who is a freelancer (let's assume I'm non-resident, not just non-domiciled). Let's say I have US citizenship as well to get around any immigration issues. I create a company in the Isle of Man (assume I meet whatever qualifications are needed to do this). Can I just deposit my checks in th…

> Can I just deposit my checks in the UK bank account, pay no taxes, and use the money in the US without violating any British laws? What about when traveling to the UK or EU? Yes, but this isn’t particularly surprising — I’d expect it to work the same way everywhere. The Brits would love you to deposit your money into their banking system, and if you’re not resident in the UK and the income hasn’t arisen in the UK t…

Yea, I knew that American tax law has provisions that (in theory) protect against this being legal.

Do professional athletes in Europe become resident in the Isle of Man at all? I know they use Monaco in somewhat similar manner.

Re: The Isle of Man is not in the UK

#209

Post by nicky0 » Mon, Oct 14, 2019, 12:55 PM UTC

phatfish wrote: post #133

nicky0 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes the "they didn't know what they were really voting for" argument. Insulting and pathetic.

This Brexiteer response has become VERY old. Do you really think all the people that voted for Brexit (and those that support Remain) have the capacity to understand all the intricacies of leaving the EU? The entire civil service working on it for the last 3 years barley have a clue. How is someone with their own life and work to manage supposed to find the time? Brexit will fuck the poor but they are supporting it.…

Do you really think all the people who voted remain have the capacity to understand the full intricacies of the consequences of remaining in the EU?

Re: The Isle of Man is not in the UK

#210

Post by cgiles » Mon, Oct 14, 2019, 11:20 PM UTC

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #193

cgiles wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cameron originally offered and called the referendum expecting a win for remain, to put the Tory lunatic fringe back in the box for a generation. They campaigned terribly, remain lost... All true, but even then there was the opportunity for spin, especially because Cameron resigned. TM could have said, "I respect the need to leave the EU, but we can't just ignore the needs of Scotland and NI (not to mention busines…

Well again I am not going to disagree much. I don't think TM could have pulled that off. At all. I suspect that Rees-Mogg, the ERG and other fools gallery (BoJo etc) felt their prey had been weakened after referendum, so could push right for hard exit. I'm not nearly stratospherically wealthy enough to understand why that is quite so appealing for the vastly moneyed. It seems like it would come with downside for them…

I love how many people in the UK talk about fundamental changes of the voting system like PR. In the US such a thing would require a constitutional amendment and would therefore be utterly impossible, particularly since the Republicans and Democrats would stand to lose from it. But you don't have a written constitution, so...

But still, even if you got PR, then you'd have a substantial percentage of Brexit Party people in Parliament, making the UK even more of a laughingstock. Doing the same sorts of shit they do in the EU Parliament. And Greens and so forth. Sure that's what you want? I can see pros and cons to it, it is just interesting there is such desire for reform.