In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs • Hacker News Board

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#201

Post by ericfrenkiel » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 6:30 PM UTC

ianai wrote: post #188

xenocyon wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least part of the cause of the visible squalor we see in Seattle is that the tough-on-crime crowd has consistently opposed safe injection, harm reduction, trash pickup, housing-first, and other evidence-based policies in favor of expensive, inhumane, and pointless measures like sweeps and incarceration. Any measure the city government takes that is not overtly cruel gets slammed as coddling the homeless or "attrac…

“some would prefer to see the police cart drug users off to jail to get them out of the way” (article) It seems like creating housing projects for these people would be cheaper and more beneficial to society than increasing the prison population. I’d like to see something like dorms with shared restrooms, cafeterias, and such facilities. It’d create work and demand locally while keeping the streets clean.

As long as it is outside city limits, but operated as a city extension, in something like a rural environment, I think this is a great idea.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#202

Post by mAEStro-paNDa » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 6:30 PM UTC

just_lurkin wrote: post #17

The reporters designation of "figured out" seems to stem more from the fact that the solution fits his own view than any actual real evidence. There is mention of the difficulties such lax policies has brought to the city, but they are waved away as being "growing pains" toward a new utopia. I can't say, living here, that I feel that the problem is solved. I view the needles outside my apartment as evidence to the co…

> The reporters designation of "figured out" seems to stem more from the fact that the solution fits his own view than any actual real evidence.

It's an opinion piece.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#203

Post by sukilot » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 6:31 PM UTC

RickS wrote: post #62

As a resident, Seattle's drug policy seems okay. I think the goal of harm reduction, trust building, and getting people back on track is a laudable goal. People need a pathway back, not to keep being kicked down. But we need higher standards about the anti-social behaviors that are comorbid to drug use. The problem isn't that people are on narcotics. It's at least _possible_ to be a functional member of society while…

Seattle needs more public dumpsters and sewage receptacles for non-landowners/land-renters.

When London was covered in rivers of shit in the 19th Century because there was no sanitation infrastructure, was that because the citizens were anti-social criminals? Or was is a societal problem that needed a funded solution?

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#204

Post by rdtwo » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 6:31 PM UTC

news_to_me wrote: post #144

just_lurkin wrote: post #17

The reporters designation of "figured out" seems to stem more from the fact that the solution fits his own view than any actual real evidence. There is mention of the difficulties such lax policies has brought to the city, but they are waved away as being "growing pains" toward a new utopia. I can't say, living here, that I feel that the problem is solved. I view the needles outside my apartment as evidence to the co…

Do you think there would be fewer needles outside your apartment if we simply locked these people up? I think there would be more. I agree that the limits of rehabilitation need to be seriously considered, and that good policy requires a mix of approaches. That said, all of your arguments could be applied to alcoholics during prohibition. I think if we actually want a sense of community in this city, it starts by tre…

If my neighbor beat his wife, damaged my car and pissed on my house I would do exactly what ever good neighbor should- call the cops and make sure they have enough evidence to send his ass to jail. The problem is when the cops don’t come then what do you do?

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#205

Post by timdev2 » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 6:32 PM UTC

redisman wrote: post #133

drcode wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think there is more drug-related crime and public heroin injections in "puritan" US cities like Seattle vs European cities like Frankfurt or Amsterdam... you must not travel very much.

What are the Pioneer Square and "3rd and pike" of Frankfurt or Amsterdam?

Anecdotally, I observed daytime public intravenous drug use within my first 3 hours on the ground in Frankfurt a few years ago. I don't know exactly where, but it was within walking radius of the main train station. I think it was in/adjacent to some kind of red-light district.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#206

Post by mehrdadn » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 6:32 PM UTC

empath75 wrote: post #39

nostromo wrote: post #15

... this is probably news to people actually living in Seattle. (Edit: the title was originally, "Seattle Has Figured Out How to End the War on Drugs") A place where meth heads attack people with pitchforks in the street a few days after being released from prison on a suspended sentence. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/man-accused-... Not to mention our random piles of used syringes, which are often…

When people say things like this, I do have to wonder if they've ever lived in a city before. Seattle's crime rate, like most American cities, has been steadily declining since the 1980s. There is just a certain amount of crime and drug use that will always exist in the big city. No amount of 'tough on crime' policing will make it go away.

> Seattle's crime rate, like most American cities, has been steadily declining since the 1980s.

Someone else says the opposite: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20780632

Not sure which one is correct...

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#207

Post by sukilot » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 6:32 PM UTC

magashna wrote: post #42

taurath wrote: post #4

Interesting take on the situation - one key difference is I don’t feel any less safe now than 10 years ago walking around. I DO see more “open” use, and people walking around obviously on something, especially by the homeless (which makes sense even if they’re not using at a higher level). I don’t see the social services much though. IMO they could use more visibility. The prevailing opinion seems like we do “nothing…

The article mentions how it's difficult to reallocate the money saved on the court/prison system to the public health needs. Imagine what could be done if the same amount of money going towards imprisoning someone was instead spent on social services. Instead its easier for our politicians to stay "rah-rah" on punitive action.

Imagine if we funded schools so kids could learn useful skills, and raised a progressive income tax so the working poor could keep more of what they earn!

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#208

Post by allana » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 6:32 PM UTC

downandout wrote: post #186

allana wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You were ratelimited by @dang for acting poorly, not surprisingly your continuing to act against the sites policy for downvoting.

Downvoting is against the site’s policy? Why does the downvote button exist then?

Downvoting (from what I gather) is supposed to be used not as a disagree button, but rather as a tool when a comment doesn't add value to a conversation, hence why downvotes are so restricted on HN.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#209

Post by npo9 » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 6:33 PM UTC

ianai wrote: post #188

xenocyon wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least part of the cause of the visible squalor we see in Seattle is that the tough-on-crime crowd has consistently opposed safe injection, harm reduction, trash pickup, housing-first, and other evidence-based policies in favor of expensive, inhumane, and pointless measures like sweeps and incarceration. Any measure the city government takes that is not overtly cruel gets slammed as coddling the homeless or "attrac…

“some would prefer to see the police cart drug users off to jail to get them out of the way” (article) It seems like creating housing projects for these people would be cheaper and more beneficial to society than increasing the prison population. I’d like to see something like dorms with shared restrooms, cafeterias, and such facilities. It’d create work and demand locally while keeping the streets clean.

I am anti housing projects. To me, creating a housing projects is like sweeping the problem under the rug. It concentrates poverty and crime into the area in/around the projects.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#210

Post by sukilot » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 6:33 PM UTC

allana wrote: post #115

empath75 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or you know, Amazon and Microsoft could throw in some cash.

Microsoft advocated for a tax on very large companies to fund social services to break the cycle of poverty leading to lack of opportunity for our youth: https://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/news/2019/07/21/amazon-m...

Microsoft's CEO lobbied for a progressive income tax that mountain residents voted down.