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Yes, I’m Feeling Bad About Climate Change. Let’s Discuss

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Re: Yes, I’m Feeling Bad About Climate Change. Let’s Discuss

#201

Post by adrianN »

Recurecur wrote: post #182
adrianN wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I'm suggesting that we start a linear reduction right now and be done in 20 years. Perhaps overshoot the target by a few years and pay for it with carbon sequestration.

Your "we" includes every nation on Earth? Including China and India who have built many coal fired electricity plants lately, and have plans to build many more? Plants that have design lifetimes of ~40 years? You expect to have all fossil fuel powered vehicles worldwide phased out within 20 years? Including aircraft? What about cargo ships? There is no practical chance of even hitting the lowest trajectory IPCC targe…

Well then we probably shouldn't even try right? Just keep on accelerating towards that cliff.

Re: Yes, I’m Feeling Bad About Climate Change. Let’s Discuss

#202

Post by dang »

navigatesol wrote: post #54
youareawesome wrote: post #15

I've gotten a vasectomy exactly because it's clear that some of the worst outcomes of human-created climate change are inevitable, and I recommend anyone who cares about the environment and the well-being of their potential children to do the same. My only question is what to do when the world actually ends in 10 or so years. I'm thinking of quitting my job in SF and moving to a rural area in northern midwest far fro…

> Does anybody have a good plan for what to do when the worst disasters occur? Like food shortages? Don't worry, I'm sure all the farming, gun-toting deplorables that the coastal cities detest will be more than happy to take the city dwellers in....

Would you please stop using HN for political and ideological battle? Ditto for posting flamebait.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Yes, I’m Feeling Bad About Climate Change. Let’s Discuss

#203

Post by watbywbarif »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #158
watbywbarif wrote: post #113

Sorry man, but all your hopes look pretty bad (as any other average eco-enthusiast hopes do). 1. Renewable energy (solar and wind mainly) is shitty mostly, not delivering, huge resources required, and huge backup battery/hydro storage required. SOLUTION = Nuclear 2. EV cars are junk, poorly packed energy, much less than gasoline per kg, giving bad range and big mass overhead to vehicle (meaning also bigger energy con…

Genuine question: if you had to pinpoint a small number of sources that led you to these opinions on renewables, EVs, recycling and nuclear power, what would they be?

Sad thing is, I don't have it. I am forming my opinions during last decade or so from various sources, books and articles, I mostly look at numbers, and numbers of top eco friendly ventures look bad and bloated. I am considering to aggregate all this is more serious article backed with sources. I can give you just few last ones that have left a mark on my opinion and still can remember the source :)

Recycling: https://www.ft.com/content/360e2524-d71a-11e8-a854-33d6f82e6... Just look how much waste is going around a globe and do rough calculation how much oil is used only for transport!

Nuclear energy danger??? https://ourworldindata.org/what-is-the-safest-form-of-energy I am deeply sad because events like Chernobyl and Fukushima have stopped nuclear revolution when it could have made huge difference. Remember that Fukushima had 15000+ dead from tsunami and only 1 from radiation!

I will try to remeber/find more, at work now so...

Re: Yes, I’m Feeling Bad About Climate Change. Let’s Discuss

#204

Post by watbywbarif »

adrianN wrote: post #200
bradlys wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the scale required to do batteries + solar + wind is much greater than building nuclear power plants. I know that nuclear power plants are a large scale event but so is creating a factory to make PVs. Same with lithium mines. Same with refinement of that lithium. Now we're getting into having to create lots of steel for wind turbines too. In my mind, you get to the end in 10 years with nuclear. With solar, yo…

IMO the situation is dire enough that we should just follow both paths simultaneously. Build as much nuclear as we can, but also build as much renewables as we can.

I don't think that "industry capacity" is problem for nuclear option. That problem is in peoples minds and public opinion thanks to Chernobyl and Fukushima.

Check out how fast you can ramp up production when in need :D http://mathscinotes.com/2017/09/ww2-tank-production-comparis... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_production_during_Wor...

Problem is that if you ramp up solar/wind you will have to ramp up battery/hydro for backup if you want to stay clean. Nuclear does not need batteries. If you have cheap nuclear, than you make real changes in transport and recycling.

Re: Yes, I’m Feeling Bad About Climate Change. Let’s Discuss

#205

Post by watbywbarif »

yread wrote: post #186
adrianN wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have about 10 years of emissions left if we want to stay below 2°. Building nuclear plants takes ten years on average, at the current rate of building them. If you wanted to suddenly build two or three orders of magnitude more, you'd first have to scale up the supply chain, e.g. for pressure vessels. There is not enough time left for a nuclear revolution.

Also, about 1/3 of CO2 emissions of nuclear power gets created during construction, ie. building a ton of nuclear in the next ten year would produce a huge amount of CO2 before we get any benefits.

Same with solar and wind, I think even worse.

Re: Yes, I’m Feeling Bad About Climate Change. Let’s Discuss

#206

Post by yread »

watbywbarif wrote: post #205
yread wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, about 1/3 of CO2 emissions of nuclear power gets created during construction, ie. building a ton of nuclear in the next ten year would produce a huge amount of CO2 before we get any benefits.

Same with solar and wind, I think even worse.

Uh, yes but it doesn't take 10 years before you get energy out of it?

Re: Yes, I’m Feeling Bad About Climate Change. Let’s Discuss

#207

Post by NeedMoreTea »

RankingMember wrote: post #119
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might want to consider donating to some of the groups that have sprung up. Two that have had recent visibility are: Extinction Rebellion, organisers of the civil disobedience protests in the UK and elsewhere - https://rebellion.earth Client Earth, a legal charity aiming to repeatedly take governments to court on climate matters. Became much more visible when Dave Gilmour made a major donation recently: https://ww…

Got any good US-based charity recommendations? Both of those seem Euro-centric.

Update: Coincidentally I just saw a news item about a US equivalent of Climate Earth: https://earthjustice.org who seem to have considerable history and track record. They just launched a law suit over the Endangered Species Act.

Re: Yes, I’m Feeling Bad About Climate Change. Let’s Discuss

#208

Post by RobertRoberts »

IanCal wrote: post #199
RobertRoberts wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The climate issue would end tomorrow if the government made it illegal and started arresting people. So it's not a problem with the people. It's a childish ploy to play with emotions, and you will end up with a childish solution playing this game. Science has won over millions of people with the truth time and time again. To pretend like this issue can only be solved by emotions is a giant lie. We have history to dem…

> The climate issue would end tomorrow if the government made it illegal and started arresting people. So it's not a problem with the people. If the government made all CO2 emissions illegal tomorrow people wouldn't be able to go to work or feed their families, you'd have massive riots and the government would either change their minds or be thrown out. > To pretend like this issue can only be solved by emotions is a…

Yes, the economy would be impacted, but the problem of the climate would be solved. A real solution. Why not start there and work backwards towards a solution that will be acceptable?

How would people feel about saving the entire human race? Maybe that's the problem, it's "feelings", not real solutions.

> Yet again, absolutely nobody is saying this.

They actually are, it's just subtle so maybe you aren't noticing it. There's an attempted shift in the discussion away from very, very real solutions to emotional manipulation.

Re: Yes, I’m Feeling Bad About Climate Change. Let’s Discuss

#209

Post by apo »

justin66 wrote: post #135
apo wrote: post #61

I'm sure the emotions are genuine, but articles like this leave me with a sense that those concerned are waiting for others (especially "leaders") to make something happen. They want electric cars to be mandated so they can continue their addiction to the automobile despite the severe environmental effects of car culture regardless of the fuel source. They want government to force companies to develop carbon neutral…

Solving climate change is a collective action problem. Action taken with other people is the entire game.

How is that incompatible with what I said?

Re: Yes, I’m Feeling Bad About Climate Change. Let’s Discuss

#210

Post by RobertRoberts »

danharaj wrote: post #97
RobertRoberts wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How I "feel" about a scientific result is irrelevant to the result. (ie, if I am mad or happy, it doesn't _affect_ the result) Therefore feelings are irrelevant to both the scientific process and the results found from using it.

It does not follow, for either result or the process. For example, whether or not a scientist or you feels like a result is relevant or interesting is crucial to the scientific process. Have you ever met a scientist in their element? They are passionate, mercurial creatures who will bitterly feud as well as sing the highest praise about their work. This seems to be integral to the process. Curiosity is a feeling, too…

Science is simple, if something works, you can prove it.

I am not idealizing anything, it's an indisputable fact that repeatable scientific results are repeatable by anyone.

There are real solutions to climate change, they can be implemented today, right now. And the followers in society have nothing to do with it, it's the leader responsibility to implement.

“If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the law and the facts are against you, pound the table and yell like hell”

― Carl Sandburg

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