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Plastics: What's Recyclable, What Becomes Trash and Why

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Re: Plastics: What's Recyclable, What Becomes Trash and Why

#201

Post by remarkEon »

Recently I got some 9V batteries from Amazon (for the smoke detector). They all came individualy shrink wrapped in plastic - all 8 of them - despite coming in a box that was surely strong enough to protect them from damage on the short trip from the fulfillment center. Why? Protect from corrosion?

This is probably a poor example, as I'm sure there must be some reason to do this with batteries, but so many things we buy online now come with mountains of non-recyclable plastics that just create more waste. I'm with other commenters here: tax the hell out of this stuff and force retailers, especially ones with clout like Amazon, to develop different packaging technologies that don't overuse plastics for literally everything.

Re: Plastics: What's Recyclable, What Becomes Trash and Why

#202

Post by remarkEon »

njarboe wrote: post #197
flavor8 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One cannot coercively distort the market with government power and expect that life will not, "uh, uh, find a way." Uh, yes you can. Just look at the different car fleets in Europe (where gasoline taxes are high) vs the US (where gasoline taxes are low.) The first thing I notice when driving from the airport either in Europe when I'm visiting or the US when I'm back is the different composition of cars on the road…

Why many people in the US buy trucks and SUVs over cars is due to a lot of factors. A major one that is not well known is that US auto manufactures have had a high incentive to promote them since a 1964 tax law[1] set a import 25% tax on light trucks. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax

I'm skeptical that the import duty had a significant effect on truck and SUV sales in the US. A lot of this is probably cultural, coupled with the fact that much of the United States wasn't really settled and developed (at scale) until after WWII. Pickups are just more useful in places that are less dense. Plus, they look cool and are fun to drive.

>Robert Z. Lawrence, professor of international trade and investment at Harvard University, contends the tax crippled the U.S. automobile industry by insulating it from real competition in light trucks for 40 years.

This comment also made me laugh. I doubt that we'd be seeing everyone drive Tatas around the ranch instead of Fords if they didn't have a 25% import duty.

Re: Plastics: What's Recyclable, What Becomes Trash and Why

#203

Post by Scaevolus »

the_gastropod wrote: post #179
LandR wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can still get milk delivered in glass bottles here. But everything else I agree is pretty impossible to avoid plastic. Hell, I even saw some fruit, fruit , in plastic containers at the supermarket. I guess to stop it getting bashed. It was peaches.

This drives me bonkers. Tomatoes in little plastic crates, bananas is plastic bags, (bananas come with their own really great packaging! Why the hell do they put them in bags?!) cellophane-wrapped cucumbers. My previous employer got Fresh Direct shipments frequently, and the blackberries, raspberries, etc. came packaged in Russian doll nested plastic crates. Made my head explode.

"a wrapped cucumber lasts more than three times as long as an unwrapped one"

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/feat...

Re: Plastics: What's Recyclable, What Becomes Trash and Why

#204

Post by frankzinger »

jeromegv wrote: post #66
knowaveragejoe wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plastic bottles are pretty much all included according to this site. There's no reason not to include them too.

What's even better than putting your plastic bottle in recycle is not using plastic bottle at all. Is there any use case where plastic bottle is better or required?

Apparently manufacturing glass uses way more resources/energy and has a much bigger carbon footprint. (No source at hand, sorry.) It also weighs more so is more expensive to transport. Plastic is good for some things, no doubt about that.

Re: Plastics: What's Recyclable, What Becomes Trash and Why

#205

Post by TeMPOraL »

18pfsmt wrote: post #196
TeMPOraL wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know what you mean. You can still buy cheap incandescent bulbs where I live, despite EU-wide phaseout, because they're clearly labeled "not for domestic use"... But this shows that regulating the market is not a "fire and forget" deal, but an iterative process. First you make the main bad thing more expensive than good behavior. Then you look for "life finding a way", "clever entrepreneurs" abusing loopholes, and m…

Eventually you create a black market like drug cartels and the Russian mob. Perhaps we should legalize narcotics and sell them in Walgreens and CVS instead of "subsidizing" SPECTRE. "The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers." -Princess Leia

> Eventually you create a black market like drug cartels and the Russian mob.

Not necessarily. These kinds of black markets form around things with specific demand profiles; plastic for packaging and disposable goods isn't one of them. Also, I'm not talking about putting people in jail for this, just making the whole thing much more expensive (through taxation and maybe extra bureaucracy). People aren't gonna start dealing plastic forks and individually plastic-wrapped cookies on the black market; they simply aren't gonna bother making them and switch to different materials.

Re: Plastics: What's Recyclable, What Becomes Trash and Why

#206

Post by coldtea »

martin-adams wrote: post #138

Maybe a solution is the same with cigarettes in the UK. Any packaging which is non-recyclable must be a standard color (i.e. red), and may not contain any creative branding on it. If advertisers want to market their products and make them look attractive on the shelves, they'll find creative solutions to using recyclable packaging.

>If advertisers want to market their products and make them look attractive on the shelves, they'll find creative solutions to using recyclable packaging.

The real problem is recycling is itself a charade. Most of what is "recycled" just ends up in landfills in the developing world.

The idea however is nice: I'd say let's make all packaging of any product a standard color (we could also allow a picture of the product as is). Less crap to falsely differentiate a product from another, less visual clutter, less messing with our brains to consume! Products would have to be attractive for what they are!

Re: Plastics: What's Recyclable, What Becomes Trash and Why

#207

Post by coldtea »

Scaevolus wrote: post #203
the_gastropod wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This drives me bonkers. Tomatoes in little plastic crates, bananas is plastic bags, (bananas come with their own really great packaging! Why the hell do they put them in bags?!) cellophane-wrapped cucumbers. My previous employer got Fresh Direct shipments frequently, and the blackberries, raspberries, etc. came packaged in Russian doll nested plastic crates. Made my head explode.

"a wrapped cucumber lasts more than three times as long as an unwrapped one" https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/feat...

So just eat the cucumber earlier and shop more often/local?

Compared to destroying the environment sounds like a bargain!

Re: Plastics: What's Recyclable, What Becomes Trash and Why

#208

Post by ianai »

joshspankit wrote: post #140
martin-adams wrote: post #138

Maybe a solution is the same with cigarettes in the UK. Any packaging which is non-recyclable must be a standard color (i.e. red), and may not contain any creative branding on it. If advertisers want to market their products and make them look attractive on the shelves, they'll find creative solutions to using recyclable packaging.

I have been thinking that it could also work to force all material which is not in direct contact with food to be single-process recyclable. No layers, made from a select number of materials, and no extra labels. Just drop the package in the recycle and it can be re-used as-is.

I wonder whether a standardized product container could gain market share. One option, make containers that consumers can purchase and then refill with standard disbursement containers at stores. Maybe the disbursement container would label the container with the usual store label. Another would be to strictly enforce containment options for different form factors ala the other comments here.

Re: Plastics: What's Recyclable, What Becomes Trash and Why

#209

Post by ianai »

coldtea wrote: post #207
Scaevolus wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"a wrapped cucumber lasts more than three times as long as an unwrapped one" https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/feat...

So just eat the cucumber earlier and shop more often/local? Compared to destroying the environment sounds like a bargain!

And the cucumber will just decompose back into the environment if disposed as trash, too.

Re: Plastics: What's Recyclable, What Becomes Trash and Why

#210

Post by ianai »

remarkEon wrote: post #202
njarboe wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why many people in the US buy trucks and SUVs over cars is due to a lot of factors. A major one that is not well known is that US auto manufactures have had a high incentive to promote them since a 1964 tax law[1] set a import 25% tax on light trucks. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax

I'm skeptical that the import duty had a significant effect on truck and SUV sales in the US. A lot of this is probably cultural, coupled with the fact that much of the United States wasn't really settled and developed (at scale) until after WWII. Pickups are just more useful in places that are less dense. Plus, they look cool and are fun to drive. >Robert Z. Lawrence, professor of international trade and investment…

(my opinion) Sorry, but trucks are some of the ugliest vehicles. They’re basically big, fat blocky designs with annoying sound and air pollution. They’re also high set and often can’t corner well.
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