Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'm of the mindset that code written 20 years ago should run today. I'm of the mindset that it should be possible to rub code written 20 years ago, but not always the same way you run code written more recently. Emulation, virtual machines etc all allow access to old work without hobbling future development with backwards compatibility concerns (see: Windows). In this case, there are plenty of free and open source…
A large number of academic labs share data by hosting it over FTP. You can harp on about better methods or whatever but these people do not care and don't have time/energy to start caring.
Google Plans to Deprecate FTP URL Support in Chrome
201–210 of 350 posts
Re: Google Plans to Deprecate FTP URL Support in Chrome
#202End of an era. I imagine it would take the better part of a decade to earn my loyalty back if they ever pulled a 180, but seeing their direction the writing has been on the wall for a while.
Re: Google Plans to Deprecate FTP URL Support in Chrome
#203Earlier quoted context omitted.
I just hope this isn't like how Google basically killed off RSS when they killed off the best client that everyone was using (which I've still never heard a good reason why) which I believe played a role in the decline of everyone having a blog. And yes I know there's some niche support still, just as FTP will live on.
Incredible how that happened. I used Google Reader a lot, adding any interesting blogs I would find. Now I can't find any of them again :/ I think I've got a list saved somewhere, but it was just so easy to go through Reader.
Re: Google Plans to Deprecate FTP URL Support in Chrome
#204I feel like Google is quickly moving in the footsteps of IE; embrace, extend, extinguish and all that. I don't like how Google now has so much market share in the browser space that they can essentially unilaterally make decisions that are user-unfriendly and have a real impact. I switched (back) to Firefox for this reason. I switched away from them when they essentially purged Brendan Eich for political reasons, but they're the lesser of two evils now.
I guess in summary, all browsers suck and we're all fucked.
Re: Google Plans to Deprecate FTP URL Support in Chrome
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Google is optimizing its browser for the majority, chrome is not a power-user browser. That is a problem. We have browser engine duopoly, and really everyone is doing whatever Google wants anyway. So as they're optimizing against power users, they're making the whole web much worse.
Can you please explain to me why you believe optimising against power users is making the internet worse. I tend to agree with you, but would you mind fleshing this out a bit. Or, if you've written this before please point to it.
Chrome is a duopoly, and Firefox tends to get forced in the same direction as Chrome over time -- it's not powerful enough to push the web as a whole in a different direction.
If Chrome was not a duopoly, this would not be a problem. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with having a browser that's highly optimized for nontechnical users. However, because Chrome has such control, pushing technical users out of Chrome has the effect of pushing technical users out of the web entirely. By putting itself into a dominant market position, Chrome has put itself in the (unenviable) position of needing to be everything for everyone.
In other words, if Chrome doesn't support power users, and if Firefox doesn't have the guts to refuse to make the changes they advocate for, then power users have no where to go. This is why monopolies and duopolies are bad even if the companies behind them are good. Its completely unrealistic for a single product to be everything for everyone, so single products by their very nature exclude certain users.
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So who cares if power users abandon the web?
This is a problem because historically, power users have been incredibly important for the web's development. They've been important not just in the sense that they've pushed the web forward technically, but also because the web was designed to be a democratizing medium. The web is designed to be a publishing platform where people can build weird things without asking anyone's permission.
Even non-technical users benefit from this -- it's in their best interest to have lots of providers providing lots of solutions for publishing because (repeating what I said above) no one platform can be everything for everyone. A non-technical web that is optimized for ordinary people to the exclusion of power users is going to be less creative, less interesting, and less useful even for ordinary people.
Whether or not FTP in particular is critical to that -- I don't know. I don't know enough about FTP to make a strong argument on that. I will say I have used FTP a lot as a consumer, especially when downloading packages, and I have used FTP on internal networks. I'm not an expert, but the arguments package maintainers make about why SSL is unimportant to FTP ring true to me. My understanding is that package signing prevents modification attacks, and that looking at request sizes is enough to identify resources even with SSL.
As a policy, deprecating URL types that don't support encryption seems at first glance to be a really dumb move, and I'm not sure the security arguments justify it. But I'm not an expert.
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I'm on Firefox, and I'm hopeful that Firefox is going to see a resurgence of usage pretty soon, particularly among power users. If Firefox refuses to deprecate FTP, I'm not so worried, since honestly I think it's probably in everyone's best interest for Chrome to do a few dumb things that make more power-users jump ship to Firefox. A lot of power users aren't willing to make the switch on ideological grounds; Chrome as a browser needs to get much, much worse to encourage them to use competitors.
Thankfully, it appears that (especially recently) the Chrome dev team has been thinking the same thing.
Re: Google Plans to Deprecate FTP URL Support in Chrome
#206Earlier quoted context omitted.
If I imagine I'm in a position as a developer / project manager / whatever working for Google trying to advocate Google committing resources to the FTP protocol in Google Chrome, I'm struggling to think of a way of promoting it that shows it will have a return on investment. How do you display ads while someone is accessing an FTP server? ftp://example.com/directory/file.extension can be a link in a website, where th…
Chrome, being a browser made by an advertising company, could show ads on ftp directory listings.
Re: Google Plans to Deprecate FTP URL Support in Chrome
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Insecure" is the new "is a witch". Too coarse to be used as a valid argument.
Alright. It's not encrypted and not origin-verifiable then. I think we all knew that though... anyway it should be abundantly clear at this point that no one should be using protocols that can trivially be MITM'ed to access anything over the internet.
Re: Google Plans to Deprecate FTP URL Support in Chrome
#208Earlier quoted context omitted.
Chrome, being a browser made by an advertising company, could show ads on ftp directory listings.
In that sense, it's somewhat strange that Chrome isn't already presenting us with ads in the tab-/addressbar and the menu. Perhaps some pop-ups from the bottom and sides as well while they are at it? The original free/shareware version of Opera had that too, and it wasn't that intrusive.
Re: Google Plans to Deprecate FTP URL Support in Chrome
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
Actually a MitMable channel makes the "it's just cryptographically signed" thing into a heap more trouble. Bad guys can now replay old drivers, which were cryptographically signed, as the latest drivers. So then you need to build cryptographically signed metadata structures, so that you can tell that these were the latest drivers as of some recent moment. You need to have this idea of freshness, and a mechanism to en…
Drivers have versions in them, it's part of the driver itself and therefor cryptographically signed. People like to cargo cult TLS as if it's the only option but it's really not, even debian doesn't use https (and gets quite a bit of backlash despite understanding very well their security model): https://whydoesaptnotusehttps.com/
Re: Google Plans to Deprecate FTP URL Support in Chrome
#210Earlier quoted context omitted.
A large number of academic labs share data by hosting it over FTP. You can harp on about better methods or whatever but these people do not care and don't have time/energy to start caring.
They can also just not upgrade their browser, then. If they don't have the time/energy they're probably still on IE anyway.
This is a very silly response.
New versions are released with security fixes, not just new features.