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The electric car as a talisman of false hope

jussipasanen.com

201–210 of 338 posts

Re: The electric car as a talisman of false hope

#201
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can deny it all you like, but it’s true [1] and you’re just illustrating the point: nobody wants to do the things that actually matter , because those things are painful (not incidentally, #2 is “sell your car”). It’s far easier to mock the people who tell you the truth than it is to make substantial changes. [1] https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment...

You know what would be EVEN more effective at fighting climate change than not having children? Committing suicide. But people don't want to listen to the harsh truths. They would rather consume their way out of the problem with electric cars, education for third world countries, reforestation, solar power and other false hopes.

> You know what would be EVEN more effective at fighting climate change than not having children? Committing suicide.

I'm sorry but I think this crosses the line. I don't want to impose my morality on you but in my opinion me saying "most people should not have children" is not the same as basically telling people to kill themselves.

I understand that I am in the minority when I say this I think not conceiving children is not the same as telling people to kill themselves. I think people do not have a fundamental right to reproduction at the same level as they have the right to be left alive (which I think comes higher).

I'd much rather see most people not have children rather than they kill themselves.

Re: The electric car as a talisman of false hope

#202
post #13

His argument distills to: solve it all-at-once, or don’t solve it at all. This is an uninteresting and uninspiring line of thinking that ignores the nature of socially dynamic systems which don’t exist in a world of instantaneous cause-and-effect. His conclusion states that electric cars make a difference, but they don’t make a real difference: “I do think they can slightly reduce unsustainability” but “by switching…

> Most people arrive at the decision to purchase an electric vehicle exactly because they are questioning their way of life. Electric vehicles are not a talisman of false hope, they’re a singular step in the right direction.

Oversimplistic view, you have a stake in Tesla or you don't know better. Otherwise you would also discuss the TCO, the total power need to produce e-vehicles, where Lithium is harvested and under what circumstances, that increased electricity demand fuels the discussion about nuclear power plants. And many more points to consider which certainly don't give a 100% conclusive picture in favor of e-mobility.

Re: The electric car as a talisman of false hope

#203
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clearly fewer folks are buying into that. The day of the 1970's 25-foot land cruiser are waning. The Ford Focus is now king.

> The Ford Focus is now king. The Ford F150 wishes to disagree.

I have one of each!

Re: The electric car as a talisman of false hope

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because, as indicated, it 'buys absolution' for the individual. That means they don't have to do anything else to feel they are contributing. Which shoots the moonshot in the foot.

You're assuming that they're indeed not doing anything else. I strongly doubt that's an accurate assumption.

And I'm completely sure its exactly what's happening. In 99% of the people.

Re: The electric car as a talisman of false hope

#205
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone should go through the comments and collect together all the "perfect" solutions. If we let the "ban cars" and the "ban children" folk fight it out then that frees up time for the "pragmatically improve things along many different dimensions, many of which would be beneficial even if we totally ignored climate change" folk to get on with things.

You can deny it all you like, but it’s true [1] and you’re just illustrating the point: nobody wants to do the things that actually matter , because those things are painful (not incidentally, #2 is “sell your car”). It’s far easier to mock the people who tell you the truth than it is to make substantial changes. [1] https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment...

In that case you can thank the educated women of the world who are forgoing having children in all the countries where the fertility rate is already below replacement.

They've probably done more to combat global warming than most "ban cars/meat/flying" fanatics.

Re: The electric car as a talisman of false hope

#206
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn’t rebut any of my points. First, can you not buy an electric car and advocate and enact organizational or systematic change? They’re not mutually exclusive. Second, how do dynamic systems composed of many independent, self-directed agents change? Instantaneously or over some period of time? How long is that period of time? Probably much longer a period of time than it takes to purchase an electric vehicle (…

They’re not mutually exclusive. Well, you can only spend a given dollar once. So if for example the government spends $$$$ to put an EV charging point in every street light, that's $$$$ they didn't spend making busses more appealing.

That assumes that the lack of appeal of buses has anything to do with money. Until buses can:

* Deliver me from point A to point G without stopping at B, C, D, E, and F along the way

* Provide room for more than a handful of cargo/luggage and park / wait around while I load/unload it

* Actually stick to a goddamn timetable (looking at you, Muni)

Then no amount of money will make buses more appealing to me than a car.

Trains have these same problems, minus the inconsistent timetables, and have the added benefit of typically going at least a little bit faster.

Re: The electric car as a talisman of false hope

#207
It's much more impactful for the tech community to push for remote work everywhere except where it's physically necessary than to convince everyone to buy a battery car. Where i live it's impossible to use one anyway due to non-robust electicity network. Despite being an island that is sunny year round, its not possible to incorporate more renewables into the system, so the main source of electricity remains oil. I bet the main buyers of battery cars live in big cities anyway.

https://image.slidesharecdn.com/emissionsfromdrivingtowork-1...

Re: The electric car as a talisman of false hope

#208

Seems to me a lot of people are so attached to carculture that they can't even read the article properly. The author sees all sorts of good things about electric cars. I drive them myself. I love cars. But... The points the article makes about cars being part of a larger flawed system of urban and rural development are spot on. 'Self-driving' cars will only make this worse. Even just the excessive prevalence of hard-…

urban mass transit is never used by the wealthy. the last thing people with ill gotten gains want to do is to be around others who can identify them and see with their own eyes how much they’ve stolen. and they don’t want to be around their own kind as there’s no honor amongst thieves.

"urban transit is never used by the wealthy" ...

In North America

What you are saying here is not true of Europe.

This is a cultural problem, and says a lot about American culture. Racism, excessive individualism, and status seeking.

I remember being shocked when I first visited suburban Atlanta for work. Atlanta is a lot like the greater Toronto area (where I live[d]) -- big giant sprawl. But unlike the Toronto area, people in the suburbs were actively campaigning _against_ the extension of rail into their area, because they didn't want the undesirables from downtown coming into their prosperous sprawl.

Re: The electric car as a talisman of false hope

#209
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people already don't buy shit. At all. I mean after about a decade I finally gave in and bought a used TV (instead of using a PC monitor). I already don't fly to useless tech conferences, and work remotely (so no mindless daily commute). And eventually when the e-charger network will become widespread enough around here, I guess, I'll buy a used EV instead of the current car, because cities can't ban these s…

> And the way to make the GHG-friendly stuff cheap is to tax the shit out of the GHG-positive things. Making everything more expensive is a political dead-end, and would exacerbate income inequality.

Which is why you'd want to combine the tax with a subsidy for "clean" products (financed by those very same taxes, perhaps).

Re: The electric car as a talisman of false hope

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

urban mass transit is never used by the wealthy. the last thing people with ill gotten gains want to do is to be around others who can identify them and see with their own eyes how much they’ve stolen. and they don’t want to be around their own kind as there’s no honor amongst thieves.

"urban transit is never used by the wealthy" ... In North America What you are saying here is not true of Europe. This is a cultural problem, and says a lot about American culture. Racism, excessive individualism, and status seeking. I remember being shocked when I first visited suburban Atlanta for work. Atlanta is a lot like the greater Toronto area (where I live[d]) -- big giant sprawl. But unlike the Toronto area…

Or, if you have money, you can opt out of uncomfortable inconvenient dirty solutions to your transportation problems. What's money for after all.
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