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Not So Fast: Analyzing the Performance of WebAssembly vs. Native Code

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Re: Not So Fast: Analyzing the Performance of WebAssembly vs. Native Code

#201

Post by pjmlp »

ScottFree wrote: post #192
pjmlp wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swing is only bad for those that never bothered how to use it properly, by reading blogs and books like Filthy Rich Clients.

You're biting hard on the 'true scotsman' fallacy. Ask the linux developers where that gets them. Is it the year of the linux desktop yet?

It would be if they bothered to create a single DE and did not have religious issues with driver issues, as proven by ChromeOS and Android.

None of them have anything to do with lack of skill using Swing.

Re: Not So Fast: Analyzing the Performance of WebAssembly vs. Native Code

#202

Post by pjmlp »

tatersolid wrote: post #198
pjmlp wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a joke, where are the visual designers for HTML/CSS, with automatic binding generation for database backends? Layout engines with customization capabilities? Where is the hardware accelerated drawings that I can be fully sure it is hardware accelerated without doing tricks with z index and hoping for the best regarding mapping css drawings into textures?

> What a joke, where are the visual designers for HTML/CSS, with automatic binding generation for database backends? Did you ever actually use a PowerBuilder (or similar RAD tool) application? The experience was horrible, slow, and basically a waste of titanic amounts of money. I once saw half an accounting department quit after a switch to a RAD financials package. There’s a reason all those 1990-2005 era vertical-m…

Yes, for Delphi, C++ Builder, Forms, WPF/UWP, QML, iOS, Android, Symbian.

Parallel to that I have been doing Web projects since 2000 as well.

HTML 5 / CSS 3 has nothing that compares, that is why Flash took off and is coming back in the form of WebAssembly, now with everyone racing to support it with their favourite runtime + WebGL.

Re: Not So Fast: Analyzing the Performance of WebAssembly vs. Native Code

#203

Post by ScottFree »

pjmlp wrote: post #201
ScottFree wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're biting hard on the 'true scotsman' fallacy. Ask the linux developers where that gets them. Is it the year of the linux desktop yet?

It would be if they bothered to create a single DE and did not have religious issues with driver issues, as proven by ChromeOS and Android. None of them have anything to do with lack of skill using Swing.

ChromeOS and Android also have good looking interfaces.

> None of them have anything to do with lack of skill using Swing.

Can you name me 10 swing apps that look good? I can do the same for the web and MacOS. I'm not sure I'd be able to name 10 for windows, but I can name at least two.

Re: Not So Fast: Analyzing the Performance of WebAssembly vs. Native Code

#204

Post by tatersolid »

pjmlp wrote: post #202
tatersolid wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What a joke, where are the visual designers for HTML/CSS, with automatic binding generation for database backends? Did you ever actually use a PowerBuilder (or similar RAD tool) application? The experience was horrible, slow, and basically a waste of titanic amounts of money. I once saw half an accounting department quit after a switch to a RAD financials package. There’s a reason all those 1990-2005 era vertical-m…

Yes, for Delphi, C++ Builder, Forms, WPF/UWP, QML, iOS, Android, Symbian. Parallel to that I have been doing Web projects since 2000 as well. HTML 5 / CSS 3 has nothing that compares, that is why Flash took off and is coming back in the form of WebAssembly, now with everyone racing to support it with their favourite runtime + WebGL.

I think you misunderstood. I get that you built apps using the various RAD frameworks, but did you actually use one as part of your daily job?

Re: Not So Fast: Analyzing the Performance of WebAssembly vs. Native Code

#205

Post by bastawhiz »

amptorn wrote: post #165
bastawhiz wrote: post #83

So many comments here missing the point. As a developer, I can use wasm to ship a single binary that works on Windows, Mac, Linux, Android, and iOS. I can use the language that I want. I don't need to have Xcode, visual studio, android studio, or any other set of tools: you can reasonably build an app with your text editor and LLVM. And then, you can use my app by typing its address into your address bar. No installa…

What privacy and security attributes does WebAssembly have over a plain old web page?

It doesn't need to improve the security or privacy. It's the same. But it lets you write in any language that can compile to LLVM IR, and it's fast. Which means that many applications which were previously impractical in vanilla JavaScript are now possible.

Re: Not So Fast: Analyzing the Performance of WebAssembly vs. Native Code

#206

Post by pjmlp »

ScottFree wrote: post #203
pjmlp wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be if they bothered to create a single DE and did not have religious issues with driver issues, as proven by ChromeOS and Android. None of them have anything to do with lack of skill using Swing.

ChromeOS and Android also have good looking interfaces. > None of them have anything to do with lack of skill using Swing. Can you name me 10 swing apps that look good? I can do the same for the web and MacOS. I'm not sure I'd be able to name 10 for windows, but I can name at least two.

A random picked number to somehow win Internet discussion points I guess.

Anyway, InteliJ, SwingUI Weather app, any app using Substance, Alloy, JGoodies or Synthetica theme libraries.

Re: Not So Fast: Analyzing the Performance of WebAssembly vs. Native Code

#207

Post by pjmlp »

tatersolid wrote: post #204
pjmlp wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, for Delphi, C++ Builder, Forms, WPF/UWP, QML, iOS, Android, Symbian. Parallel to that I have been doing Web projects since 2000 as well. HTML 5 / CSS 3 has nothing that compares, that is why Flash took off and is coming back in the form of WebAssembly, now with everyone racing to support it with their favourite runtime + WebGL.

I think you misunderstood. I get that you built apps using the various RAD frameworks, but did you actually use one as part of your daily job?

I fail to see the point.

Either the developers are able to use the tooling at their disposal to deliver awesome products or not.

Skype was originally coded in Delphi, so yeah.

Re: Not So Fast: Analyzing the Performance of WebAssembly vs. Native Code

#208

Post by ScottFree »

pjmlp wrote: post #206
ScottFree wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ChromeOS and Android also have good looking interfaces. > None of them have anything to do with lack of skill using Swing. Can you name me 10 swing apps that look good? I can do the same for the web and MacOS. I'm not sure I'd be able to name 10 for windows, but I can name at least two.

A random picked number to somehow win Internet discussion points I guess. Anyway, InteliJ, SwingUI Weather app, any app using Substance, Alloy, JGoodies or Synthetica theme libraries.

> A random picked number to somehow win Internet discussion points I guess.

No need to be nasty. I chose 10 at random because it's a decent sample size without being too onerous for an online discussion. If I wanted to earn internet discussion points, I would have made it 10,000.

I'll take a look at those and get back to you. I'm very curious. Unlike some commenters (not a jab at any particular person or even a particular site, just a general observation of commenters online), I like it when I'm proven wrong about something. I'd rather know than live in ignorance.

Re: Not So Fast: Analyzing the Performance of WebAssembly vs. Native Code

#209

Post by FpUser »

tatersolid wrote: post #204
pjmlp wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, for Delphi, C++ Builder, Forms, WPF/UWP, QML, iOS, Android, Symbian. Parallel to that I have been doing Web projects since 2000 as well. HTML 5 / CSS 3 has nothing that compares, that is why Flash took off and is coming back in the form of WebAssembly, now with everyone racing to support it with their favourite runtime + WebGL.

I think you misunderstood. I get that you built apps using the various RAD frameworks, but did you actually use one as part of your daily job?

I have used many. PowerBuilder is absolutely atrocious. Delphi is brilliant and there is a whole range in between. I do not mind creating GUI in code either for applications that work with GPU but would still prefer Delphi like environment,

Re: Not So Fast: Analyzing the Performance of WebAssembly vs. Native Code

#210

Post by tatersolid »

pjmlp wrote: post #207
tatersolid wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misunderstood. I get that you built apps using the various RAD frameworks, but did you actually use one as part of your daily job?

I fail to see the point. Either the developers are able to use the tooling at their disposal to deliver awesome products or not. Skype was originally coded in Delphi, so yeah.

If you think Skype’s user experience was ever in any way “good”... what do you consider “bad”?
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