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France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

reuters.com

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Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#201

Post by raverbashing »

skosch wrote: post #189
raverbashing wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I worry about global warming, this antagonizing view doesn't help "Paying for the damage" is this some kind of joke? What about all the other polluters? Shipping? Coal plants? Macron got the Yellow Jackets by hating on people that depend on cars to do their job, because wow, if you don't live in a place with public transport and already pay a substantial amount of tax in everything else and earn less than…

> "Paying for the damage" is this some kind of joke? What about all the other polluters? Shipping? Coal plants? Right – tax them too, and distribute the revenue back to households. That way it's not a regressive tax, but a wealth transfer from heavy polluters to regular folks who are bearing the indirect costs of the climate crisis.

This sounds like a better plan, too bad it won't happen

This tax will just go to cover deficit or to pay the exceptional privileges of the government employees including French railways which go on strike more often than not.

But surely, alienating the common people is the way to go...

Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#202

Post by Freak_NL »

elohju wrote: post #65
skocznymroczny wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the alternative to flying?

Sailboats

Hmm… Perhaps dirigibles too?

Sounds rather wonderful to travel across the oceans in a luxury airship. Perhaps throw in the excitement of a murder mystery solved by a cunning Belgian detective with a funny moustache as well?

Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#203

Post by philshem »

dajohnson89 wrote: post #174
keiferski wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a perfect world it would be an hour between each stop: DC > Philadelphia > NYC > Boston

Let's add in the BWI airport too. And while we're at it add Baltimore too. But that's it!

This is why we can’t have nice things

Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#204

Post by boudin »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #157
boudin wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it depend if the train is running on electricity or diesel, but in France I had read an article in a french newspaper stating that the carbon footprint of train was 10% of the one from planes. This article seems to have the same numbers: https://www.seat61.com/CO2flights.htm

France is primarily nuclear powered, so electric trains there have extremely low carbon impact. https://www.electricitymap.org/?wind=false&solar=false&page=... (ElectricityMap.org: France)

Yes, it heavily depends on how the energy the trains runs on is produced.

Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#205

Post by isolli »

ceejayoz wrote: post #97
isolli wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Related: I was surprised to learn recently that short-distance trips by plane actually have lower CO2-emissions than long-distance ones, because the plane does not need to carry so much fuel just for later use.

Do you have a citation on that? https://www.yaleclimateconnections.org/2015/09/evolving-clim... says "Longer flights are more efficient overall, as cruising requires less fuel." https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/apr/06/aviation... also states "short flights tend to be more harmful to the climate per mile travelled than long-haul flights are (because they have more empty seats, and because taking off and la…

Thanks, it is indeed a bit more complicated than I first thought! There is a sweet spot: "Above a certain distance it becomes more fuel-efficient to make a halfway stop to refuel, despite the energy losses in descent and climb." [0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_economy_in_aircraft#Fligh...

Interesting tidbit (from the same): Very long non-stop passenger flights suffer from the weight penalty of the extra fuel required, which means limiting the number of available seats to compensate. For such flights, the critical fiscal factor is the quantity of fuel burnt per seat-nautical mile. For these reasons the world's longest commercial flights were cancelled c. 2013. An example is Singapore Airlines' former New York to Singapore flight, which could carry only 100 passengers (all business class) on the 10,300-mile (16,600 km) flight. According to an industry analyst, "It [was] pretty much a fuel tanker in the air."

Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#206

Post by seanmcdirmid »

magduf wrote: post #194
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Value added taxes sure, but this is a flat head tax, I don’t think biz class is going to be charged more than economy class.

It says right there in the article that business class will be charged more than economy.

Sorry yes. The article says 18 euros is the cap for business international, not the starting point. This is still very small potatoes when a business class ticket isn’t going for less than $3k.

Interesting that they are also not taxing transits, meaning if you just transfer through CDG, you aren’t paying the tax.

Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#207

Post by Analemma_ »

vuln wrote: post #161
blondie9x wrote: post #135

About time. Traveling is killing the planet. One of major causes of climate change. We need to take it seriously. I'm glad France is willing to take a bold and brave step to support the environment.

I can't believe I am living in an era that a "bold and brave step" is raising taxes. What a sad world we live in. I guess France and their leaders can sleep well knowing they have stifled the climate crisis. Pat yourself on the back France you "did something".

Carbon emissions are an externality cost. How do you propose properly accounting for that cost if not through taxes?

Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#208

Post by rayiner »

blondie9x wrote: post #135

About time. Traveling is killing the planet. One of major causes of climate change. We need to take it seriously. I'm glad France is willing to take a bold and brave step to support the environment.

Flying is 5% of CO2 emissions.

Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#209

Post by standardUser »

blondie9x wrote: post #135

About time. Traveling is killing the planet. One of major causes of climate change. We need to take it seriously. I'm glad France is willing to take a bold and brave step to support the environment.

Business travel is killing our planet. All the family vacations in the world can't compete with giant companies constantly shuttling thousands of employees all around the globe to attend meetings and conferences.

Re: France to tax flights from its airports, airline shares fall

#210

Post by lm28469 »

raverbashing wrote: post #179
Balero wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least for flights around Europe, taking the train. Flight in Europe are very cheap. It's actually cheaper to fly from London to Newcastle than it is to get the train, and it takes roughly the same time. For all flights the alternative is just not to go. Instead of flying to the Caribbean for a holiday, go some place closer and take the train, instead of flying for a business meeting, just call in. If it's worth th…

As much as I worry about global warming, this antagonizing view doesn't help "Paying for the damage" is this some kind of joke? What about all the other polluters? Shipping? Coal plants? Macron got the Yellow Jackets by hating on people that depend on cars to do their job, because wow, if you don't live in a place with public transport and already pay a substantial amount of tax in everything else and earn less than…

> because wow, if you don't live in a place with public transport and already pay a substantial amount of tax in everything else and earn less than the people in the capital you should pay more right? You're the bad guys

Damned if you do, damned if you don't, there is no nice way out of our unsustainable lifestyles, we're all going to take a blow.

> What about all the other polluters? Shipping? Coal plants?

We have 4 coal plants in france and they're about to close. As far as I know most industries pay taxes for pollution (carbon tax, eco tax, &c.)

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