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I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

nytimes.com

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Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#201

Post by madengr »

rayiner wrote: post #64
jedberg wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you think the immigrant parents that own a Chinese restaurant open seven days a week make it to any of their kids school functions or camping trips? Are they being irreparably damaged? Based on my experience going to college with a few kids like that, yes. They all resented their childhood and the fact that the only way to see their parents was to work in the restaurant.

Yet they’re in college. Their parents having prioritized work over their kids undoubtedly will allow those kids to live an immensely better life than they would have otherwise. There’s millions of people in the world that would trade places with them in a heartbeat. One of my fears is that my kids will learn these bad American ideas from media. I saw my daughter watching a Disney show (Bunk’d), where a high achieving…

I tell my kids I’m striving to be the Chinese Tiger Dad, when I pester them to practice the cello (daughter) and viola (son).

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#202

Post by MRD85 »

afiori wrote: post #180
dudul wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference being one is talking about "how they think things would be if they were a dad", while the other is talking about the actual experience they had while being a dad. Somehow I feel like one of the two takes precedence in terms of credibility.

But they are in agreement. The same way both assuming that a [category X] can't do [stuff Y] and being positively surprised when they do are two faces of the same discrimination.

My point is she thinks it would be great to have no one expect you to be a decent parent and she passes it off as men having it better in her article. I'm saying, that for a dedicated parent, it's worse.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#203

Post by adrianN »

untog wrote: post #200
dTal wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if you looked at the early years of feminism, you would a similar hatred of men. Only people who have been pushed to the absolute brink are prepared to break the social taboos. The sooner the world accepts that there needs to be a conversation about equality going both ways, the sooner that anger will be defused. Arguing about who has it "worse" is probably counterproductive now. (All of this applies mainly t…

> I think if you looked at the early years of feminism, you would a similar hatred of men. I'd be fascinated to see a historical account of that. Many suffragettes (including the founder Emmeline Pankhurst) were married. Perhaps they all hated their husbands, but I'd be interested to know more. > Arguing about who has it "worse" is probably counterproductive now. It's kind of unavoidable, though. Encouraging women to…

I think being unmarried as a woman was a recipe for a live in poverty back then.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#204

Post by honestoHeminway »

untog wrote: post #185
throwaway4378 wrote: post #164

Few days ago I saw something about “Men’s rights” movement and my first reaction was to think of it as parody and laugh it off. But then I looked at few stories and videos and it was eye opening. Many people don’t understand how badly some of the men are being exploited and even driven to suicide. Current laws in Western world are heavily tilted towards perceiving men as guilty party, someone who must always be makin…

IMO there's nothing wrong with Men's Rights as a cause, but if you look at, for example, /r/mensrights on Reddit an absolutely toxic hatred of women pervades the place. It's not healthy. But yes, suicide, custody in divorce etc are issues where men deserve recourse. That said, historically women have been on the receiving end of physical violence from men far, far more often than vice versa and were told to suffer in…

I actually doubt this narrative to be true. Woman had there way of getting "saved" by other men, institutions and religion for all this time. The only thing always there was the victim narrative.

Source: Grew up in a evangelical household- woman always held the hidden strings, and used most of the males (who choose this lifestyle) as shields and pawns to play.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#205

Post by Spooky23 »

rayiner wrote: post #85
wishinghand wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No wonder China is eating our lunch! Slave like conditions can do that to a more moderate work-life balance culture.

There is lot of room between “slave like conditions” and the modern American trend of decadent children and adolescents that live in a state of extended infancy well into their 20s. From 1948 to 2000, the teenage labor force participation rate was 45-55%. Since 2000 it has dropped dramatically, to just 35% last year.

With good reason... the labor force is such that employers don’t want teenagers and the strings attached to them (ie work hour limits, etc). They prefer to put adults on call.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#206

Post by doute »

dTal wrote: post #194
untog wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO there's nothing wrong with Men's Rights as a cause, but if you look at, for example, /r/mensrights on Reddit an absolutely toxic hatred of women pervades the place. It's not healthy. But yes, suicide, custody in divorce etc are issues where men deserve recourse. That said, historically women have been on the receiving end of physical violence from men far, far more often than vice versa and were told to suffer in…

I think if you looked at the early years of feminism, you would a similar hatred of men. Only people who have been pushed to the absolute brink are prepared to break the social taboos. The sooner the world accepts that there needs to be a conversation about equality going both ways, the sooner that anger will be defused. Arguing about who has it "worse" is probably counterproductive now. (All of this applies mainly t…

> I think if you looked at the early years of feminism, you would a similar hatred of men.

But that is only relevant if the situations are similar. But for example, it is the most "feminist" countries that grants the most paternity leave. And the reason why the US have unwavering laws on divorce, custody and alimony is to protect the traditional family model where divorce is discourage and women didn't have career to fall back on.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#207

Post by untog »

p_l wrote: post #193
untog wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO there's nothing wrong with Men's Rights as a cause, but if you look at, for example, /r/mensrights on Reddit an absolutely toxic hatred of women pervades the place. It's not healthy. But yes, suicide, custody in divorce etc are issues where men deserve recourse. That said, historically women have been on the receiving end of physical violence from men far, far more often than vice versa and were told to suffer in…

Such communities are easy pickings for exploitation, which is how they get infiltrated and made toxic to hell. See also "incel", something that started out from a woman's blog and turned from self-deprecating to a bit of mutual help, to finally a toxic hell hole.

Yeah, it makes me really sad that (particularly in the incel case) young men looking for a support community basically end up being radicalised. Lessons for society as a whole, I suppose.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#208

Post by Spooky23 »

What a sad article.

It sounds like this person is like any other distant parent. She’s responsible and no doubt her kids will be ok. But for her, despite her bluster and the importance of her work, I’m sad for her, and if she is like most attorneys like this, she will be too.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#209

Post by alexandercrohde »

untog wrote: post #200
dTal wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if you looked at the early years of feminism, you would a similar hatred of men. Only people who have been pushed to the absolute brink are prepared to break the social taboos. The sooner the world accepts that there needs to be a conversation about equality going both ways, the sooner that anger will be defused. Arguing about who has it "worse" is probably counterproductive now. (All of this applies mainly t…

> I think if you looked at the early years of feminism, you would a similar hatred of men. I'd be fascinated to see a historical account of that. Many suffragettes (including the founder Emmeline Pankhurst) were married. Perhaps they all hated their husbands, but I'd be interested to know more. > Arguing about who has it "worse" is probably counterproductive now. It's kind of unavoidable, though. Encouraging women to…

> I'd be fascinated to see a historical account of that.

Well, not a hard-source, but having been alive in the 90's most women didn't consider themselves feminists in the 90s. And if pressed they'd say things like "I believe in equality but I wouldn't call myself a feminist."

Anecdotally, there was a perception that those who most loudly and immediately identified themselves as "feminist" (not unlike those who most loudly and immediately identify as men's-right-activists) had a HUGE emotional investment in the topic and saw unfairness/oppression everywhere.

Additionally, with 90's feminism at least, some women associated loud self-proclamations of feminism as a move more common to "butch" women.

Hopefully the conversation on treatment of men will make as much progress in 20 short years.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#210

Post by abledon »

arkitaip wrote: post #29
abledon wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lol, my coworker always goes off on a rant about how much it would suck being elon musk's kids. can't convince him its just a different upbringing

How would you know how it is for Musk's kids? They could be utterly miserable because their dad works 100-120 hours per week.

of course, but maybe not, thats why we have fun discussing it at work
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