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Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

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Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#201

Post by [deleted] »

jjuhl wrote: post #106
komali2 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what shall we do? Not continue to spread the word to our fellow Americans that things can be better? I'm privileged enough to have had opportunities to see how the rest of the world manages societal and economic systems. They do it better. Before I saw for myself, I simply wasn't aware. The American way was The Way. All it took was for me to see for myself how much better it could be to turn me into an activist t…

The US is a lost cause. Just do yourself a favour and get out, sooner rather than later.

[deleted]

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#202

Post by dang »

jjuhl wrote: post #69

So the USA is fucked up when it comes to work/life balance and the US has no social system worth anything. Who knew? Well, we all knew. The US has been the laughing stock of the world for decades and the only ones who haven't noticed are the americans. No news here.

Nationalistic flamewar is not ok here.

If you continue breaking the site guidelines we are going to have to ban you. I don't want to do that, so would you please read the site guidelines and use HN as intended from now on?

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#203

Post by dang »

esjeon wrote: post #188
mruts wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people (including myself), don't want a laid back work culture. I want to kill myself for the firm, and work as hard as humanly possible. I think I just derive the most happiness from working (though I do like drinking as well). I know a lot of other people like this. Maybe you can call us brainwashed or whatever, but this is how myself and most of my co-workers are. I don't think it's an accident that America i…

[flagged]

Personal attacks and flamewar will get you banned here. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and don't post like this to HN.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#204

Post by tarsinge »

fizzledbits wrote: post #199
tarsinge wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do believe that much of the heat he’s taking is from people projecting their own insecurity and lack of fulfillment, or some other form of jealousy. Are you new here? A lot of us in this community have found fulfillment and happiness through the opposite mindset of OP. Compounded by his tone it’s not a surprise he’s taking heat. > If OP isn’t hurting anyone, more power to him. OP wants to “win”, which is usually…

When athletes speak in a competitive tone and express a desire to win, does it offend you?

First I'm not offended. This is of course not comparable with athletes because athletes compete in a game with a clear defined goal. In real life there is no goal to win. And if you set your own personal goal to maximize your own wealth (which I have no problem with btw), then at least it's basic economy understanding that it's not a zero sum game, you don't win at the expense of others, that any trade is for the mutual benefit of the parties, and that your wealth also depend on the wealth of the society as a whole (otherwise obviously your money would just be a piece of paper). You earn money because you provide value to people.

But I can understand how working as a derivative trader with one big number to increase like in a video game can narrow your perspectives, to the point of having the pretention of being a winner on top of that.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#205

Post by ryaniscool »

doubleunplussed wrote: post #197
ryaniscool wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i think you're a little biased. Best case the tax rate is about the same. I found it to be higher. It's all situational. For example, you can't file a joint tax return in Australia. You can't deduct mortgage interest. I found pay to be comparable to USA metros while the cost of living (in Sydney at least) is much higher than most metros. The exception being SF/Bay area There is no tipping but you end up paying the sa…

For what it's worth, not tipping is a plus due to the convenience of not having to think about it, I wasn't suggesting customers save money by not tipping. The resteraunt service thing is often said, but I don't see it. There must be differences in preferences for how customers want to be treated. For example I find US servers kind of pretending to be my best friend. This is unappealing to me, it's fake and awkward.…

Again, I loved Australia but restaurant service is something USA does better.

It's not the difference in attitude even though I think you're exaggerating a little. In Australia, it's getting one serving of water and never seeing your server again until they bring you your food. It's waiting for someone to take your check or bring you the check in the first place when you're ready to leave. In America, it's a willingness to make sure you're happy with your food.

The last one is a big deal because in the USA, the server is essentially working for the customers because that is where she makes most of her money. In Australia, they work for the restaurant. The end result is a completely different attitude when it comes to making sure you get what you ordered and are happy with it.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#206

Post by fizzledbits »

tarsinge wrote: post #204
fizzledbits wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When athletes speak in a competitive tone and express a desire to win, does it offend you?

First I'm not offended. This is of course not comparable with athletes because athletes compete in a game with a clear defined goal. In real life there is no goal to win. And if you set your own personal goal to maximize your own wealth (which I have no problem with btw), then at least it's basic economy understanding that it's not a zero sum game, you don't win at the expense of others, that any trade is for the mut…

I still don’t understand the derision. An athlete is indeed a useful analog. They speak of ‘winning,’ but we tend to assume they mean ‘be the best at the sport,’ not ‘be the most valuable human being’ or ‘dominate other people’, a sentiment I didn’t automatically project onto OP. Even in a real life arena where wealth isn’t conserved, you can still ‘win’ in the sense of increasing it faster than anyone else, and I didn’t automatically assume OP meant otherwise. Finally, I don’t understand why it’s wrong let alone distasteful for OP to form a psychological relationship to his labor similar to an athlete’s, even if his work isn’t a game, if that works for him; how is he beholden to anyone else’s idea of what ought to make him happy? Your point of view appears to me to boil down to “I specifically don’t like derivatives traders,” or some other gut-level attitude, which would be fair enough on its own and might find easy agreement with me were it not being rationalized in this way.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#207

Post by simonebrunozzi »

kyledrake wrote: post #2

Sure, but it's also really expensive to live in Switzerland. Not factoring in the cost of living over there is pretty disingenuous. And it's going to be a serious project to get residency there if you're not a Swiss citizen. Edit: This is not an opinion, cost of living in Switzerland is highest in the world, twice as high as in the US. Even if you make twice as much money, you're basically making the same amount. And…

The single metric of "cost of living by country" is misrepresenting reality in certain areas, let me tell you why.

USA on average is cheaper than Switzerland, sure. You are correct on that front. But you never live "in a country", you live in a specific city!

Try comparing Bay Area with Switzerland, or even better, San Francisco with Zurich, and you'll get a very different picture. Let's look at it quickly.

One of the most important metrics to determine real cost of living is "Cost per square foot" (or square meter) to buy a house/apartment in the city center.

San Francisco and Zurich are both at ~$1,200 per square foot [0], but San Francisco is more expensive on pretty much any other metric, and remember that home prices are affected (reduced) by a much higher property tax in San Francisco compared to Zurich.

Renting a 1-bedroom in downtown SF is at ~$3,410, compared to a bit more than half (!) in Zurich at ~$1,790. [0].

In 2019, San Francisco displaced Zurich as the city with the highest salaries [1, page 8].

So, to summarize: San Francisco is actually more expensive than Zurich.

[0]: https://www.numbeo.com/property-investment/compare_cities.js...

[1]: https://www.dbresearch.com/PROD/RPS_EN-PROD/PROD000000000049...

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