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0x Launch Kit – Launch your own cryptocurrency exchange or marketplace

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Re: 0x Launch Kit – Launch your own cryptocurrency exchange or marketplace

#201

Post by profalseidol »

root_axis wrote: post #189
profalseidol wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember that the smart contract is committed to the blockchain and can never be changed. Just like when you push your code to a git repo. It's guaranteed immutable, tamper proof. Data side is handled by appending to the blockchain as well. But this doesn't mean it's bug-free. You have essentially a tamper proof Database with Stored Procedures that doesn't need DBAs. I imagine it as a giant growing BitTorrent file th…

None of that is really true though. It can all be changed on the whim of influential thought leaders within the eth community.

Yes, the thought leaders in the eth community are indeed influential just like Linus Torvalds is to the Kernel project. But that doesn't mean you can't fork Linux should you disagree with him.

What you are saying is not a technical problem. But a problem in Human Society. Or even just an inherent due to it's novelty. This issue is present to almost anything that is not yet widely adapted.

With that said, giant evil mega corporations have grouped up to work on an 'enterprisy' version of Ethereum with a standard spec for interop. We're on a good track to get more 'thought leaders'.

Re: 0x Launch Kit – Launch your own cryptocurrency exchange or marketplace

#202

Post by root_axis »

profalseidol wrote: post #201
root_axis wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of that is really true though. It can all be changed on the whim of influential thought leaders within the eth community.

Yes, the thought leaders in the eth community are indeed influential just like Linus Torvalds is to the Kernel project. But that doesn't mean you can't fork Linux should you disagree with him. What you are saying is not a technical problem. But a problem in Human Society. Or even just an inherent due to it's novelty. This issue is present to almost anything that is not yet widely adapted. With that said, giant evil m…

Whether it's a technical problem or a human one, the bottom line is that "guaranteed immutable, tamper proof" is not true. It doesn't matter that Linus Torvalds is influential on the linux kernel project because the linux kernel is not claiming that it is "immutable and tamper proof".

Re: 0x Launch Kit – Launch your own cryptocurrency exchange or marketplace

#203

Post by nradov »

willio58 wrote: post #178
nradov wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chargebacks have been used since forever in corporate accounting systems for that purpose. They work fine, no cryptocurrency or exchange needed.

Hmm I think the whole point of using cryptocurrency is to not use actual dollars to incentivize work between parts of the company. Maybe you could use it to negotiate a promotion within a company, etc.

There's no point to using cryptocurrency for that. Regular dollars work just fine. It's just entries in an internal corporate accounting system.

Re: 0x Launch Kit – Launch your own cryptocurrency exchange or marketplace

#204

Post by arcticbull »

lojack wrote: post #193
arcticbull wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How about real time cross border remittance and settlement? Current fiat approaches require large illiquid reserves, are slow, and not very scalable. It's bad for that, we've been through this. To send money you have to pay ~1% to an exchange in your home country, wait a few days for it to clear exposing yourself to huge forex risk, pay a $1 transaction fee give or take, then pay ~1% to an exchange in your destinat…

You've done a good job explaining how to do foreign exchange and how you can personally buy things in other countries. What happens if you're an international business that uses Bank of Melborne and has to pay vendors in Croatia using Primorska Banka? How does actual money get sent? Not credit that can be settled at a later date. Real money, sometimes large amounts that needs to be settled. A forex market is absolute…

Crypto path:

EFT transfer to an exchange, purchase crypto (1% fee), withdraw to a different exchange ($1 fee), sell crypto (1% fee), SEPA transfer to recipient.

Classic path:

TransferWise handles everything (0.85% or less). Or:

EFT transfer to Interactive Brokers, FOREX exchange ($20 per million), withdraw via SEPA to Croatian account. They allow you to link both AU and Croatian accounts. Or:

Open an HSBC account in both places and use the online instant account-to-account global transfer tool (rates vary, ~2%) and send a SEPA payment. Or:

Wire money (pricey). Or:

With a brokerage account and an established business you can instantly make your payment through margin (3.9% per annum). IB will allow you to borrow Hrvatska kruna and withdraw instantly via SEPA payment. Then you can transfer in Australian dollars over EFT at your leisure.

Seriously, this is a solved problem and the crypto path is not faster, it's not safer, it's not cheaper, it's not easier.

Re: 0x Launch Kit – Launch your own cryptocurrency exchange or marketplace

#205

Post by arcticbull »

chrisco255 wrote: post #198
arcticbull wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Within the US, ACH is being superseded by RTP realtime payments. SEPA is realtime in Europe. It's a formality from the perspective of the customer because the payment 'happens' immediately, and the merchant gets paid out within 24 hours, sooner if they really need it. Is this really a problem?

It looks like RTP has not been rolled out everywhere yet and that there are some issues: https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomgroenfeldt/2019/01/22/the-cl... But still, definitely a promising improvement over ACH. It is a practical problem that the merchant has to wait 24-48 hrs for funds. It's a cash flow problem. It slows down the speed at which that cash can be used to purchase other goods or services. For example, a m…

> It's a cash flow problem. It slows down the speed at which that cash can be used to purchase other goods or services.

No. That's what lending is for. Square will allow you to cash out instantly for a 1% fee, they offer merchants a debit card they can use to access the funds in real-time as they're received for no additional fee, or you borrow some amount of float at today's incredibly low interest rates.

As a business in need of liquidity you can even sell your accounts receivable for less than 1% to invoice factoring companies. There's so many options out there.

Or the merchant can open a credit card and get fee-free interest-free loans for a whole month.

This is not an issue today, or rather, you’re making mountains out of molehills. There are ways of addressing this without crypto or throwing out the existing financial system. But more importantly what how many merchants wait for funds to clear before they go out and buy the supplies to do a job?

Re: 0x Launch Kit – Launch your own cryptocurrency exchange or marketplace

#206

Post by lojack »

arcticbull wrote: post #204
lojack wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've done a good job explaining how to do foreign exchange and how you can personally buy things in other countries. What happens if you're an international business that uses Bank of Melborne and has to pay vendors in Croatia using Primorska Banka? How does actual money get sent? Not credit that can be settled at a later date. Real money, sometimes large amounts that needs to be settled. A forex market is absolute…

Crypto path: EFT transfer to an exchange, purchase crypto (1% fee), withdraw to a different exchange ($1 fee), sell crypto (1% fee), SEPA transfer to recipient. Classic path: TransferWise handles everything (0.85% or less). Or: EFT transfer to Interactive Brokers, FOREX exchange ($20 per million), withdraw via SEPA to Croatian account. They allow you to link both AU and Croatian accounts. Or: Open an HSBC account in…

> TransferWise handles everything (0.85% or less).

TransferWise doesn't do settlement. You still have to pay a merchant with a card who then needs to settle. No actual money is being settled through TransferWise.

> EFT transfer to Interactive Brokers, FOREX exchange ($20 per million), withdraw via SEPA to Croatian account. They allow you to link both AU and Croatian accounts.

EFT transfer to IB isn't instant. SEPA requires you to be using Euro. SEPA does handle settlement, but you still need to do settlement with both the EFT transfer as well as within your IB account. IB does have programs to allow early withdrawal before your account is settled if you quality, but again that isn't settlement.

> Open an HSBC account in both places and use the online instant account-to-account global transfer tool (rates vary, ~2%) and send a SEPA payment.

Again, SEPA requires you to be using Euro. Additionally, you would need to do settlement on the initial transfer to HSBC.

> Wire money (pricey).

The company you're using to wire money needs to handle cross border remittance and settlement, so how do they do it?

Just to reiterate... you've done a fine job explaining how a consumer can send money across the globe. You're not wrong to say that as a consumer there are perfectly acceptable solutions that can accomplish what they need. What you've completely failed to do is explain how to accomplish "cross border remittance and settlement" using Fiat in a way that is fast, doesn't require vostro account (i.e. illiquid reserves), and is scalable with the number of possible banks you'd need to transfer money to/from.

Re: 0x Launch Kit – Launch your own cryptocurrency exchange or marketplace

#207

Post by arcticbull »

lojack wrote: post #206
arcticbull wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto path: EFT transfer to an exchange, purchase crypto (1% fee), withdraw to a different exchange ($1 fee), sell crypto (1% fee), SEPA transfer to recipient. Classic path: TransferWise handles everything (0.85% or less). Or: EFT transfer to Interactive Brokers, FOREX exchange ($20 per million), withdraw via SEPA to Croatian account. They allow you to link both AU and Croatian accounts. Or: Open an HSBC account in…

> TransferWise handles everything (0.85% or less). TransferWise doesn't do settlement. You still have to pay a merchant with a card who then needs to settle. No actual money is being settled through TransferWise. > EFT transfer to Interactive Brokers, FOREX exchange ($20 per million), withdraw via SEPA to Croatian account. They allow you to link both AU and Croatian accounts. EFT transfer to IB isn't instant. SEPA re…

Ah I guess I misunderstood your question. My understanding is that settlement can be accomplished the way that TransferWise bootstrapped. They matched up two pairs of domestic transfers, where if I wanted to send money to Canada, they waited until someone wanted to send money to the US, then we'd each domestically transfer money to eachothers recipients. Minimal reserves, and everything happened domestically.

Re: 0x Launch Kit – Launch your own cryptocurrency exchange or marketplace

#208

Post by dangero »

homakov wrote: post #177
dangero wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the transfer agent can ask for a key signing before moving funds, but they also need to be able to transfer WITHOUT the key. Examples would be a key loss or transfer of ownership due to court order. I don't know what the key is doing since it's optional and highly fallible proof of transfer intent. At best the key signing is providing a partial audit trail with no case law to support any liability transfer creat…

In a custom blockchain it can be configured to have admin method to transfer without a signature. But the question is why.. Why assets cannot be bearer?

Bearer instruments are linked to money laundering and we largely outlawed in the US in the 80s in relationship to securities.

Re: 0x Launch Kit – Launch your own cryptocurrency exchange or marketplace

#209

Post by dangero »

rickycook wrote: post #179
dangero wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens when someone steals someones private keys and transfers the tokens to their account? What happens when someone loses their private keys? The asset by US law is tied to them as a person, not a bearer instrument like a private key.

stealing private keys is the same thing as forging an identity in that case. someone can always forge documents to make a transfer of the asset

Yes of course but how do you resolve that discrepancy on the immutable ledger records?
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