How far is materials technology from being able to keep people warm there?
Materials isn't the problem. No amount of warm clothes make you feel warm when your body is losing oxygen.
Everest is littered with dead, exposed bodies
201–210 of 266 posts
Re: Everest is littered with dead, exposed bodies
#202I recently got back (almost exactly a month ago) from a month long climbing trip in Nepal with some friends. We had three guides, all three of whom have climbed Everest multiple times. One of our guides, who has summited 5 times, described Everest as his "bad habit". As a relative newbie to high altitude mountaineering (the highest I got was ~19,850 feet), climbing in Nepal was really, really hard. You are never warm…
I'm going to go ahead and judge. 1 in 10. Your have a 10% chance of dying if you attempt a summit, right? How much pain is your untimely death going to cause if it happens? How many everest orphans and widows are there? Include in that the considerable cost and time investment to do this when you could be creating something, exploring something that has a conceivable chance of helping humanity, or just plain investin…
1 in 10 is the stat over the past 50 years or so. The past
10 years has seen major changes to Everest summits that make that number much, much lower. Fixed ropes are much more prevalent now which has made a huge difference in keeping people safe, as well as reducing bottle-necks so that climbers spend less time in the dead zone.
Last year there were 330 summits and 5 deaths, so roughly 1.5%
Re: Everest is littered with dead, exposed bodies
#203Some friends and I are climbing some of the tallest mountains in the world (including Everest) to raise money for cancer research. I must say that these pictures certainly scare me a bit, but I really believe in our cause. We are starting our quest this January, in south America where we will climb Aconcagua, the tallest mountain in the western and southern hemisphere, and the tallest outside Asia.
We would love some donations from HN community www.climb4coloncancer.org
We are also looking for cancer survivors interested in joining and sponsors. Email us if interested!
Ivan
Re: Everest is littered with dead, exposed bodies
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
You could, if you were willing to say something very silly. The death rate for car travel is around 1 per 100 million miles travelled. It's safer than just about anything besides riding in a commercial airliner; even lying in bed will kill you sooner. The other half is that in most of America and many parts of the rest of the world, most people can't support themselves financially or otherwise without driving a car a…
> The death rate for car travel is around 1 per 100 million miles travelled. It's safer than just about anything besides riding in a commercial airliner http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_causes_of_death_by_rate Automobile travel is one of the most likely voluntary activities to kill you, and the most likely direct cause of death (as opposed to things like smoking which kill you indirectly over time).
> one of the most likely voluntary activities to kill you
This is for values of "you" which != "mountain climber." Hell, I stay away from mountains and a car isn't going to be what gets me--I swim at midnight in the ocean here in Florida, and ride my motorcycle to work almost every day when the weather's cooperative.
Re: Everest is littered with dead, exposed bodies
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
It takes all kinds. People with the balls to summit Everest are rare, and they provide great stories to humanity, just the same as astronauts, deep sea divers or spelunkers. I can admire that because it's unusual and inspiring, something that can not be said for people playing it safe. I won't judge you for your judgement, and I might even share it for people mountaineers who have kids, etc, but I can not agree with…
I don't think the point is risking life is bad in all cases. It depends on the possible gain. A simple example is a lot of people consider freedom something worth dying for. But what is the gain here of climbing Everest after it has been climbed hundreds of times? Astronauts clearly benefit humanity with more than just great stories. I can't see much marginal benefit for society for each additional Everest climber. I…
But I just can't see much benefit for anyone else.
I and my oldest son both have a form of cystic fibrosis. I have figured out how to get us well (we actually work together on it but I do most of the research). Reading up on altitude sickness was an Aha! moment for me. In some ways, medical science doesn't have much of value to offer me in terms of thinking through the problem and coming up with new solutions. Medical science is mostly about finding better drugs rather than a better understanding of the process involved in what is typically a slow torturous death where your lungs deteriorate until you qualify for a lung transplant (assuming you don't have bad habits that disqualify you).
Reading this piece was personally meaningful to me in surprising ways that I probably can't adequately express. I belong to entire communities operating in their own medical equivalent of "The Dead Zone", where lack of oxygen, high doses of medication and so on create very emotional, inflammatory discussions and many people seem incapable of thinking logically. I wrestle continuously with both how and whether to offer assistance in the face of enormous hostility and long odds that it will really do any good. Even people who are interested in what I am doing sometimes write me and bluntly state up front "I will never make the extreme lifestyle changes you have made. But can you tell me more about ... (some food or supplement)?"
Stories about mountain climbing, altitude sickness et al are the absolute best analogies I have tripped across for what I am dealing with. I don't care if mountain climbers are crazy or selfish or whatever. I am grateful for the information they provide. I have a medical condition that forces most people with it to basically gradually suffocate. So I find value in the stories and experiences of mountain climbers. Also, living at 3000 feet above sea level for about 2.5 years, thereby forcibly expanding my lung capacity, probably helped save my life when I spent a year at death's door and was bedridden for 3.5 months and finally got a diagnosis after a lifetime of being treated like a hypochondriac.
Some people are facing things like this totally involuntarily and their situations are difficult to talk about in normal company because it is viewed pathetically rather than like a heroic struggle. I don't need any pity-parties. I am perfectly capable of wallowing in self-pity without any assistance. I need some kind of healthier, more useful feedback. Pieces like this one may be the best I can get given the kind of social responses my story tends to inspire.
Re: Everest is littered with dead, exposed bodies
#206Some friends and I are climbing some of the tallest mountains in the world (including Everest) to raise money for cancer research. I must say that these pictures certainly scare me a bit, but I really believe in our cause. We are starting our quest this January, in south America where we will climb Aconcagua, the tallest mountain in the western and southern hemisphere, and the tallest outside Asia. We would love some…
Is it possible to donate you so that you don't climb?
Re: Everest is littered with dead, exposed bodies
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm going to go ahead and judge. 1 in 10. Your have a 10% chance of dying if you attempt a summit, right? How much pain is your untimely death going to cause if it happens? How many everest orphans and widows are there? Include in that the considerable cost and time investment to do this when you could be creating something, exploring something that has a conceivable chance of helping humanity, or just plain investin…
It takes all kinds. People with the balls to summit Everest are rare, and they provide great stories to humanity, just the same as astronauts, deep sea divers or spelunkers. I can admire that because it's unusual and inspiring, something that can not be said for people playing it safe. I won't judge you for your judgement, and I might even share it for people mountaineers who have kids, etc, but I can not agree with…
* There's more to life than staying alive.*
um... what?
Re: Everest is littered with dead, exposed bodies
#208Earlier quoted context omitted.
> In modern society most people have lost their respect for nature. So the people who don't risk their lives climbing mountains have lost their respect for nature? I think you might have that exactly backwards :)
Yeah, I TOTALLY respect Everest. Everest would kill me dead. That's why I'm staying the heck away from it. I respect lions, too.
I've heard that lions and tigers aren't actually that dangerous. Some big cats have a very vicious fear response, but lions and tigers are apex predators, and no one in their natural environment can really fuck with them, so they've lost that kind of behavior. The only real risk with lions and tigers is if they get hungry, or if you try and play with them, because they don't really realize how strong they are.
I'm not going to test this theory myself, but here's a cute story about a lion who was raised by humans and still recognized them even after being reintroduced into the wild: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_the_lion
Re: Everest is littered with dead, exposed bodies
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
Has an industry sprung up around climbing Everest? Yes. Are all Everest climbers reckless thrill-seekers? No, no and No.
I would argue that if climbing Everest is not reckless thrill-seeking then nothing else is.
Joyriding your car and doing donuts in the middle of mainstreet on a Friday evening would probably fall into the "reckless thrill-seeking" category every time. Yes, a good number of Everest climbers may also fit that bill. But it's incorrect and not particularly insightful to attribute that characterization to the entire endeavor.There are many good reasons why someone would climb Everest or any mountain for that matter. What is the particular objection? That climbing the mountain quite possibly can lead to one's premature and needless death? So can launching yourself on top of a rocket. Yet I don't see too many astronauts being accused of reckless thrill-seeking. And no, it shouldn't matter on the former if the primary motivator is personal in nature. Personal exploration can be just as valid as public exploration, as is often the justification for going into space.
Re: Everest is littered with dead, exposed bodies
#210Articles like this are very suggestive - of course while in the warm, in front of the computer everyone would try to rescue the poor climbers. However add difficult terrain, height, snow, fatigue and race with the clock and you have wholly different story. Consider how much effort is needed to transport someone by Mountain Rescue teams in lower mountains ( Even seasoned climbers admit that you are pretty much solo on…
Ultimately it is a matter of priorities. Yes rescue is difficult in the death zone. Yes people are generally on their own up there and if you fuck up and die it's on you. But on the other hand, why are you climbing? It takes resources and a very serious effort to get to the summit and back down. And it takes a particular kind of person to do that, to use all those resources and expend all that effort while stepping o…
This is my reaction as well. I can understand hard choices in survival situations. However, there's more than a little difference between people stranded in a lifeboat and people traipsing past the dying on their vacations.
I don't buy people chest-beating about the danger and adventure of their recreational choices, then explaining that the reason they passed by a collapsed or injured person to continue on to the summit and cross something off their bucket lists was because to do otherwise would be just too dangerous.