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Apache Software Foundation joins GitHub open source community

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Re: Apache Software Foundation joins GitHub open source community

#201

Post by anderspitman »

jeena wrote: post #154

I guess GitHub right now is like Facebook was in 2012, everybody is on it, it's a super vibrant community, it's backed by a huge amount of money, it locks you in (at least with wiki, issues, URLs). And a second guess is that it will also do what Facebook does, getting out of control by trying to monetize on its monopoly. It's just so mega ironic that the whole Open Source movement collectively decided that for a litt…

Are there any good in-repo issue trackers that integrate with GitHub? Like a bot that listens for changes on a GH repo and commits the information to git in a format that could be migrated to a different service down the road if necessary.

Re: Apache Software Foundation joins GitHub open source community

#202

Post by dllthomas »

diminoten wrote: post #198
dllthomas wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, I certainly didn't read his comment that way, and in light of his explicit denial that that's what he intended maybe you should reconsider whether there are alternate interpretations available.

Are you reading some of the other comment threads he's participating in? It seems like he's taking this whole thing very personally, and it's hard to pin down exactly what he's trying to say when he won't calm down. He wants me to call him, as if escalating this will be worth it... He didn't even answer your very reasonable question above. Don't you wonder why that is?

> Are you reading some of the other comment threads he's participating in? It seems like he's taking this whole thing very personally, and it's hard to pin down exactly what he's trying to say when he won't calm down.

Feeling misinterpreted can be very personal. That said, in both my initial reading and my re-reading you come off worse than he does.

> He wants me to call him, as if escalating this will be worth it...

Sometimes text-conversation-on-the-internet escalates when neither party intends it, and switching to other modalities can be valuable. That said, it's not at all clear to me that it's a good idea here compared to dropping it.

> He didn't even answer your very reasonable question above. Don't you wonder why that is?

I presume it's because it got lost in the noise.

Re: Apache Software Foundation joins GitHub open source community

#203

Post by diminoten »

dllthomas wrote: post #202
diminoten wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you reading some of the other comment threads he's participating in? It seems like he's taking this whole thing very personally, and it's hard to pin down exactly what he's trying to say when he won't calm down. He wants me to call him, as if escalating this will be worth it... He didn't even answer your very reasonable question above. Don't you wonder why that is?

> Are you reading some of the other comment threads he's participating in? It seems like he's taking this whole thing very personally, and it's hard to pin down exactly what he's trying to say when he won't calm down. Feeling misinterpreted can be very personal. That said, in both my initial reading and my re-reading you come off worse than he does. > He wants me to call him, as if escalating this will be worth it...…

Heh, you presume I care how I come off in your interpretation...

Re: Apache Software Foundation joins GitHub open source community

#204

Post by dllthomas »

diminoten wrote: post #203
dllthomas wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you reading some of the other comment threads he's participating in? It seems like he's taking this whole thing very personally, and it's hard to pin down exactly what he's trying to say when he won't calm down. Feeling misinterpreted can be very personal. That said, in both my initial reading and my re-reading you come off worse than he does. > He wants me to call him, as if escalating this will be worth it...…

Heh, you presume I care how I come off in your interpretation...

I presumed you'd value a third-party perspective, particularly as you seemed to be appealing to it in the previous comment. I don't think you care much about me in particular beyond that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Apache Software Foundation joins GitHub open source community

#205

Post by TallGuyShort »

xorcist wrote: post #91
TallGuyShort wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the ASF, being non-copyleft, is much less ideological than you're thinking. They're big on having rules to foster healthy community and community based decisions, but the license is really just a laissez faire BSD-ish license with some particular edge cases addressed. It's open-source but flexible and friendly to businesses with hybrid models. Something like GitHub that promotes input from people involved wit…

> the ASF, being non-copyleft, is much less ideological than you're thinking Do you somehow consider copyleft style licenses "more ideological" than those which are not? That is probably more telling about your own views on licensing than it is on ideologies. FreeBSD is not copyleft, and they work actively on eliminating GPL from their base. Debian mostly under the free software umbrella, but welcomes BSD code in the…

Sure there are counterexamples, but I certainly don't hesitate to say copyleft does tend to be more ideological. In every instance I can think of, every serious discussion I've had with a company about project licensing that ended with anything other than the GPL, the concerns are virality, even when they like open-source (which is a practical concern overriding an ideological one), and a lack of any real interest in how it's licensed, just wanting it put out there with very few strings attached.

Re: Apache Software Foundation joins GitHub open source community

#206

Post by lucb1e »

exolymph wrote: post #185
saurik wrote: post #122

Apparently, one of the big motivating reasons for this was "cost". > The foundation’s 2018 five-year strategic plan noted that infrastructure services account for more than 80 percent of the total ASF expense budget, adding: “Increasingly, project communities have infrastructure requirements that strain the capabilities of the ASF.” > The report noted that, given burgeoning costs, encouraging the use of more external…

> unlike a couple other major non-profits I happily would name in any other context Can this reply be the context? Which ones?

My first thought is Wikipedia, but I'm sure there is a large amount of other examples.

Re: Apache Software Foundation joins GitHub open source community

#207

Post by GordonS »

Phrodo_00 wrote: post #173
pedrocx486 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>as disappointed as I am with this decision May I ask why? Them moving doesn't look like an issue to me at least.

Personally, my only gripe (even though it's not a huge deal) is I'd have preferred it if they used hosting that actaully was open source (like gitlab)

That would decrease costs, but would it meaningfully increase community participation?

Re: Apache Software Foundation joins GitHub open source community

#208

Post by lucb1e »

neurotrace wrote: post #67
liveoneggs wrote: post #24

I hope projects will get rid of JIRA now!

I recently moved to a company that uses Jira. What kinds of problems should I be looking out for?

We use Jira in a very small company and I avoid it when possible. Wrote a command line hours tracker, that saves 1/3rd of my usage. Maybe I'll write an issues CRUD application some time as well, but I think going further down that rabbit hole costs more time than it saves.

My previous employer was a little larger (some 40 employees) and I can say that Jira solves nothing that we couldn't solve much better with text files parsed by Perl/Python/sed/awk, sometimes having a little bit of editing help (such as syntax checking on :w) from Vim/Sublime plugins (both had users that maintained their plugins).

Maybe Jira is meant for larger companies? There is a ton of special characters that trigger all sorts of crap: square brackets, double curly braces, ampersands, semicolons, colons, underscores, asterisks, at symbols, backslashes, octothorpes, pluses, carets, tildes, double question marks, pipes, and even hyphens. It takes about num_characters*20 seconds to escape a regex so it doesn't format or hide parts of it (it doesn't help that you can only check by saving, a lot of formatting does not show up in the "visual editor"), but there are probably a lot of features there that one could be using.

Re: Apache Software Foundation joins GitHub open source community

#209

Post by ShaneCurcuru »

Important clarifications: - The announcement is only about technology, there's no "partnership" between the ASF and GitHub. The ASF is vendor-neutral about all of it's operations. In particular, there is an expectation that Apache project communities continue to do much of their community and release management on ASF servers, not solely on GitHub. - Many Apache projects asked to use GitHub. It took a while, but Apache infra now allows that, as long as the repos are in our organization. Many projects still use our Subversion repo(s) too. - The ASF hosts it's own Git repos with all auditable history. So GitHub is merely one way that Apache projects can choose to allow users to contribute. If GitHub went away overnight, the ASF would still have all our own code and could keep working with our own build tools and plain old `git`. The ASF didn't decommission it's own git repos, just some of the tooling we used to mirror between our repos and GitHub.

Lars elsethread brought up a useful ASF blog post: https://blogs.apache.org/foundation/entry/the-apache-softwar...

And yes, https://github.com/apache is the ASF.

Re: Apache Software Foundation joins GitHub open source community

#210

Post by GordonS »

saurik wrote: post #122

Apparently, one of the big motivating reasons for this was "cost". > The foundation’s 2018 five-year strategic plan noted that infrastructure services account for more than 80 percent of the total ASF expense budget, adding: “Increasingly, project communities have infrastructure requirements that strain the capabilities of the ASF.” > The report noted that, given burgeoning costs, encouraging the use of more external…

Holy shit, they're spending $800k a year on infrastructure! Honestly, it's difficult to understand why they haven't sooner moved to GitHub, or even GitLab or the like - it feels reckless. That money could be put to far greater use - as an Apache supporter who hasn't ever felt the need to look at their costs, I have to say that I'm very disappointed.
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