Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#201

Post by bluGill » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 1:28 PM UTC

0xDEFC0DE wrote: post #69

seibelj wrote: post #20

> In London, Paris, Berlin, I hop on the train, head to the cafe — it’s the afternoon, and nobody’s gotten to work until 9am, and even then, maybe not until 10 — order a carefully made coffee and a newly baked croissant, do some writing, pick up some fresh groceries, maybe a meal or two, head home — now it’s 6 or 7, and everyone else has already gone home around 5 — and watch something interesting, maybe a documentar…

Yeah, we convince people if they kill themselves for corporate, they'll get a minuscule slice of money from the top. American dream and all that. At least people in Europe have hobbies.

People in the US have hobbies as well. They might be different, but there are plenty of them.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#202

Post by jki275 » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 1:31 PM UTC

UpperBodyEimi wrote: post #196

jki275 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

tivo, netflix, amazon prime, hulu, etc. I don't watch network tv anymore. Well, I don't actually watch TV at all, but you get the picture.

I don't know about Tivo, but are all of the rest of these not available in Europe...?

Well, I'm using Tivo just to refer to any timeshifting device, there are plenty. I thought the others were available in some form in EU, but I could be wrong.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#203

Post by close04 » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 1:31 PM UTC

sweeeety wrote: post #45

TuringNYC wrote: post #15

A lot depends on your particulars. I'm a minority and the US is great because I can earn opportunities my relatives in some other countries would not be allowed. In some other countries, your ethnicity/background/religion would get in the way far more than in the US. This is not to say we don't have room for improvement, we do. Just that we're more meritocratic than certain other first world countries. I know this ju…

Came here to say this. I am a minority but never found myself misplaced in the USA. The country I came without much to offer but honest work and positive/open mind. Whereas in Europe I've been victim of physical abuse just because I am not white and the immigration path is also completely broken. There is suffering everywhere I lived Canada, USA, France, Denmark, Japan, Brazil. Some places take care better of the unp…

> I am a minority but never found myself misplaced in the USA

> in Europe I've been victim of physical abuse just because I am not white and the immigration path is also completely broken

I'm not contesting you actually had these experiences but yours must be an exceptional story. It contradicts the reality of a lot of people.

But you make one big confusion that makes me question your experience with the systems. The US is a country with relatively uniform legislation. Europe is a continent where not only are the cultures vastly different between countries, the laws (like immigration) can be very different, a lot more so than between US states. And not all European countries are in the European Union. So the blanket statement "the immigration path is also completely broken", especially when comparing to the US, gives away some (uninformed) bias.

A person coming from Syria can get permanent resident status and/or citizenship after just a few years under perfectly acceptable conditions (like learning the language and having a job). So I don't really see a broken or particularly difficult path especially compared to the US.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#204

Post by ergothus » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 1:31 PM UTC

ytNumbers wrote: post #179

hello_friendos wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that why people cannot afford insulin in America. This is something to be celebrated?

Even when health care is free (but rationed), there's a ton of people who are killed by delays to receiving a needed medical procedure. Every approach to health care has its down sides.

"Every approach has downsides" does not mean one approach isnt objectively worse than others...

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#205

Post by apexalpha » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 1:32 PM UTC

This won't do well on a forum where all Americans are in the top 10% of social class.

Also, don't forget that Europe as a whole is poorer than the US. Sure, it's better to be poor in the EU than in the US but the top class can go much, much higher. A €80k salary is really on the higher end here in Europe, while Americans in IT seems to sometimes start on it.

Even though his points regarding GMO are too extreme, I think food quality and health might be the only 2 things the US is worse at than the EU. But again, you don't notice this if you're in rich in the US.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#206

Post by stirfrykitty » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 1:32 PM UTC

wayouteast wrote: post #67

matttproud wrote: post #5

As an American living abroad, I can subjectively confirm what the author writes. I have a hard time keeping a straight face when returning.

When my company sent me to South America to work, it was pretty revealing how American company culture is toxic. People from the home office in NY were literally complaining about South Americans getting too many vacation days, 1 hour lunches, and a lot of other perks that are guaranteed by law. All of this despite the south american employees making 30% of the NY salary. The head of HR complained about guaranteed 1…

Great comments and very, very true. I've worked overseas for a number of years and can vouch for what you say.

Americans are too driven. They don't know how to relax. Most Americans don't even take their full holiday time.

What I've done to combat the BS with employers is to set the bar at the interview. I tell them they will get a solid 8 hours of work from me, M-F, 730-430 or 8-5. I don't waver on this, as I have a family. I don't work nights or weekends. I don't accept calls after hours unless it's something that is dramatically critical. Don't call me to bitch about the email server being slow. The shit's in the cloud and I have no control over it anyway. It can wait.

I firmly, yet nicely "demand" an hourly wage in lieu of salary to ensure that I get paid for every second I work. Should I have to work overtime in an emergency, I should be compensated. This all sounds like some harsh demands on my part, but if I don't do it for myself, who will? I have a union mentality towards work because I know that no employer has my best interests at heart.

I tell people all the time to negotiate their own employment. HR departments are willing to work with you within reason, but you have to ask. One way of almost forcing companies to work your way is asking for an hourly salary. Quite a few will comply. No one wants to pay overtime. It's costly. I don't want to work overtime. It's a kind of let's check each other. If I cannot accomplish something in 8 hours, there is always tomorrow. I don't check email after work. In fact, I refuse to put my work email on my personal devices unless you pay a stipend. My device is mine, not yours. You have to pay to play. Yet no one stands up for themselves. Almost no one. You get what you are willing to fight for. And before someone says, well, you deserve to get fired or not hired... why? Because I'm willing to be my own union and "demand" my own terms? It's possible. Not always, but unless one tries, one gets what one gets. I tell the people all the time here, "stop taking your laptop home at night. Are you being paid overtime? If you're not, don't work overtime. Negotiate better pay and working conditions."

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#207

Post by huffmsa » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 1:32 PM UTC

roganartu wrote: post #146

huffmsa wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulations. Plain and simple. Your employees aren't allowed to work their asses off. They're going to expect to be able to get to work at 10, and be home by 5.

> Your employees aren't allowed to work their asses off. Strict labour laws don't really prevent this in practice, if someone _wants_ to work themselves to death they can (I've worked with a remote team from Poland before while I was in Australia. Despite Poland having far strong labour laws than Australia, some members of the Polish team voluntarily worked longer hours and just didn't report it). What labour laws do…

I'm not talking about big companies. The question is about poetry vs side projects which in the US bloom into startups.

So again, 1) there are more regulatory barriers to making the side project => startup jump, and 2) finding both people who are okay with working early stage company hours and finding work arounds to fairly compensate them is much harder.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#208

Post by UnpossibleJim » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 1:32 PM UTC

jki275 wrote: post #170

UpperBodyEimi wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused by this, how do you avoid commercials. From watching the off NFL game there's even like pre-commercial commercials. "Brought to you by and the official drink of and McDonalds - I'm loving it".

tivo, netflix, amazon prime, hulu, etc. I don't watch network tv anymore. Well, I don't actually watch TV at all, but you get the picture.

According to demographics, the market share of people watching broadcast television vs people watching "alternative media" (read streaming) was less than 50% as of the end of last year, I believe, according to some studies (though they were surveys, so it's hard to say exactly how accurate they are, but the pendulum is definitely swinging)

EDIT:

In an American survey, but this did include YouTube as a form of streaming media

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#209

Post by siidooloo » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 1:34 PM UTC

wozniacki wrote: post #88

cribbles wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One reason that Europe has very few innovative new companies created in the last 25 years is that everyone is at the coffee shop writing poetry. This does not dispute the central point of the quoted piece, which is that the quality of life of most Americans is very poor contrast to that of the average person in some subset of European countries. I would wager that most coffee shop employees are more concerned with…

It may be that Europeans are deincentivized from creating enormously overvalued startups because their quality of life is much better Come on you didn't even have a ride-hailing service like Uber and relied on those stodgy black cabs. Ireland still doesn't have Uber or Lyft.[1] [1] Does Uber or Lyft exist in Dublin?? https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g186591-i88-k11258020-...

The only reason Uber/Lyft exist is because transport in the US is mostly terrible.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#210

Post by exelius » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 1:34 PM UTC

lr4444lr wrote: post #103

exelius wrote: post #28

Americans don’t travel. If we did, we wouldn’t buy the myth of American exceptionalism. But then, we are largely becoming a country controlled by global financial interests rather than the population. Money is the deciding factor in our elections, and the most concentrated forms of wealth out there are sovereign wealth funds and large multinational corporations whose executives are largely above the law. Which means…

We have publicly funded elections in NYC. It doesn't the change the overall system very much.

It doesn’t work because the entire system above it takes massive amounts of private money, which influence downballot races.

The parties spend a lot of money to raise the profile of a few candidates in a state (people can only remember a few names anyway), then leverage their popularity to endorse candidates in downballot races.

In practice, whatever local candidates supported by the largest party-sponsored get-out-the-vote operation wins. In NYC, that means a figurehead celebrity mayor and most of the lower positions filled by a political machine.