Someone should write a manifesto.
Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Underpaying Many Men
201–210 of 626 posts
Re: Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Underpaying Many Men
#202High school, college, any STEM fields are all overwhelmingly biased in terms of favoring women. 57% of college graduates are women. Men are not only getting the short end of the stick but are being told by every voice that they are privileged, it’s their fault, they are bad whereas women have sooooo many extra programs and positive reinforcement to succeed. No one with a straight face can tell me women in entry level…
> 57% of college graduates are women
What's the percentage female graduates in STEM fields? The 57% may not be representative for the fields which matter for engineers. Not saying the delta is big, I honestly don't know and am curious.
Re: Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Underpaying Many Men
#203Earlier quoted context omitted.
Salary transparency is not possible and would be highly misleading because jobs are not standardized. A "senior Java developer" can be anything. Then you would have to provide a job description in a comparable format for every salary which is not trivial, if feasible at all. Salary transparency without job descriptions would be akin to showing house prices without describing house details - location, square footage,…
Why not? Just publish who makes how much money. That’s it.
And I'll point out that state governments often do this, and it seems to work fine for them.
Re: Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Underpaying Many Men
#204High school, college, any STEM fields are all overwhelmingly biased in terms of favoring women. 57% of college graduates are women. Men are not only getting the short end of the stick but are being told by every voice that they are privileged, it’s their fault, they are bad whereas women have sooooo many extra programs and positive reinforcement to succeed. No one with a straight face can tell me women in entry level…
Why are you assuming the women are below average?
Though even if they were, maybe they are making a premium because they aren't adding sexism to their workplaces and exposing their company to the legal liabilities you are.
Re: Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Underpaying Many Men
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
Salary transparency is not possible and would be highly misleading because jobs are not standardized. A "senior Java developer" can be anything. Then you would have to provide a job description in a comparable format for every salary which is not trivial, if feasible at all. Salary transparency without job descriptions would be akin to showing house prices without describing house details - location, square footage,…
Why not? Just publish who makes how much money. That’s it.
Compare two developers. One just codes and the other not only knows how to code but knows how to debug (native, runtimes, etc.). So, then you publish developer 1's pay salary and developer 2's pay salary.
Now, developer 1 has a rage-boner because developer 2 is being paid more but there's the reason of his/her desirable skills being utilised in the role. Yet, developer 1 doesn't see this qualifiable reason and just sees this as being unfair/unequal.
Pay transparency would only exacerbate the current problems around pay, not help alleviate them.
Re: Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Underpaying Many Men
#206Earlier quoted context omitted.
> No one with a straight face can tell me women in entry level tech programs are not incredibly favored. All my below average coder friends that are women got awesome jobs with high salaries extremely easily. Yes, I talk with them and they agree with what I’m saying. .... and yet, how many workplaces have an engineering team which are 50% female? 25% female? 10% female? 5% female?
What do you think the breakdown of applicants by gender is for these roles? Are you suggesting that females should be forced into occupations they don't voluntarily choose? The countries that have the most egalitarian societies show difference in gender preference maximizing, not minimizing.
This seems to be a valid observation (see https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/02/the-more...), it is not insulting or demeaning and it contributes to the discussion.
So, why is this downvoted?
Re: Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Underpaying Many Men
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
> No one with a straight face can tell me women in entry level tech programs are not incredibly favored. All my below average coder friends that are women got awesome jobs with high salaries extremely easily. Yes, I talk with them and they agree with what I’m saying. .... and yet, how many workplaces have an engineering team which are 50% female? 25% female? 10% female? 5% female?
> .... and yet, how many workplaces have an engineering team which are 50% female? 25% female? 10% female? 5% female? So you're saying, to achieve parity, we need 80-90% of STEM grads to be female and only 10% men? Or do you think we should bypass the job interview process for women entirely, until we get a 50-50 ratio in software engineering teams? Shouldn't we apply this to nurses and teachers (for male equality) a…
>Shouldn't we apply this to nurses and teachers (for male equality) as well? That is, have more accelerated job and education programs for men?
I'm not sure if that's a good argument, because maybe male teachers and nurses are disadvantaged. I have no way to tell. Instead I think it's easier to agree that it's better for everyone when everything is merit-based, especially for outsiders who have a much harder time socially (because they're outsiders) than they do professionally (because businesses are usually more rational water cooler clubs, although neither are very rational overall). Not every woman wants to be a woman in tech, some people just want to be in tech.
Re: Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Underpaying Many Men
#208Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think we're moving the goalposts here: are we talking an abstract man, on average, in general earning more than an abstract, average women or we're talking about a different pay for the same work? My understanding is that we're talking about the latter.
Does "same work" also include the hours worked? Usually not. If someone completes x projects in y hours, and someone else completes the same x projects in z hours, are they the same? Both did "the same work," but one was more efficient and did it faster (presuming the quality of the work by both parties was equal).
I assume most of Google employees are exempt, so the exact number of hours spent on a job is hard to calculate.
Re: Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Underpaying Many Men
#209High school, college, any STEM fields are all overwhelmingly biased in terms of favoring women. 57% of college graduates are women. Men are not only getting the short end of the stick but are being told by every voice that they are privileged, it’s their fault, they are bad whereas women have sooooo many extra programs and positive reinforcement to succeed. No one with a straight face can tell me women in entry level…
> No one with a straight face can tell me women in entry level tech programs are not incredibly favored. All my below average coder friends that are women got awesome jobs with high salaries extremely easily. Yes, I talk with them and they agree with what I’m saying. .... and yet, how many workplaces have an engineering team which are 50% female? 25% female? 10% female? 5% female?
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Re: Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Underpaying Many Men
#210High school, college, any STEM fields are all overwhelmingly biased in terms of favoring women. 57% of college graduates are women. Men are not only getting the short end of the stick but are being told by every voice that they are privileged, it’s their fault, they are bad whereas women have sooooo many extra programs and positive reinforcement to succeed. No one with a straight face can tell me women in entry level…
Why are you assuming the women are below average? Though even if they were, maybe they are making a premium because they aren't adding sexism to their workplaces and exposing their company to the legal liabilities you are.
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