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US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

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Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#201

Post by g_sch »

contrahax wrote: post #186
magduf wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no place in the US that beats Sweden on metrics like quality of life and healthcare affordability. These things are nationally driven, and there are no US states with socialized healthcare.

IMO most people would not consider healthcare affordability as a factor in where they want to live, or even a major factor in their quality of life. NYC (as one example) is famously expensive across the board for all types of insurance, healthcare, housing, food, etc. but still has hordes of people who want to live there. As an aside - New York State did launch a universal healthcare program recently, and I believe C…

New York City recently launched a health insurance program that seeks to cover everyone in the city and offers low-cost options. It's not, however, a single-payer program. [0]

New York State does not have any statewide health insurance program yet, universal or otherwise. However, the New York Health Act (which would create a statewide single-payer insurance program) has passed the State Assembly four years in a row and stands a good chance of finally passing the Senate this year as well. [1]

[0] https://cityandstateny.com/articles/policy/health-care/bill-... [1] https://www.nyhcampaign.org/

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#202

Post by loeg »

magduf wrote: post #102
jbarberu wrote: post #20

Having recently moved to Florida from Sweden, I was shocked at how biker/pedestrian hostile it is here. I naively thought I'd be able to live a more active lifestyle because of the nicer weather, but instead I'm driving a car everywhere as I wouldn't feel safe on a bike. It seems to be a pretty vicious cycle of the infrastructure being hostile to biking so nobody does it, nobody is biking so the roads are optimized f…

>Having recently moved to Florida from Sweden, I was shocked at how biker/pedestrian hostile it is here. Sorry if this sounds rude, but this was a surprise to you? I thought everyone in Europe realized how bicycle/pedestrial-hostile US cities are. Did you not come here first to check things out before committing to a cross-Atlantic move? And seriously, Sweden is one of the top countries on the quality-of-life indices…

The US is a huge country and has a broad range of pedestrian/cycle-friendly infrastructure — Florida in particular is among the worst.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#203

Post by contrahax »

g_sch wrote: post #201
contrahax wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO most people would not consider healthcare affordability as a factor in where they want to live, or even a major factor in their quality of life. NYC (as one example) is famously expensive across the board for all types of insurance, healthcare, housing, food, etc. but still has hordes of people who want to live there. As an aside - New York State did launch a universal healthcare program recently, and I believe C…

New York City recently launched a health insurance program that seeks to cover everyone in the city and offers low-cost options. It's not, however, a single-payer program. [0] New York State does not have any statewide health insurance program yet, universal or otherwise. However, the New York Health Act (which would create a statewide single-payer insurance program) has passed the State Assembly four years in a row…

Thanks for the clarification - I live here but haven't been keeping up with it recently.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#204

Post by loeg »

magduf wrote: post #159
ams6110 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US dwarfs Sweden in size and cultural diversity. There are many places to live in the US that are as nice or nicer than Sweden. There are many places that are not.

There is no place in the US that beats Sweden on metrics like quality of life and healthcare affordability. These things are nationally driven, and there are no US states with socialized healthcare.

> there are no US states with socialized healthcare.

So, not MA then? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_health_care_refo...

Or Vermont, temporarily: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermont_health_care_reform

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#205

Post by loeg »

graywh wrote: post #92
jbarberu wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've also lived in Spain for a short time, which isn't exactly known for their great drivers. Central Florida is worse by miles. People stare at their phones while moving (at a light is bad enough, but at least you won't hit anyone), they drive with about a car's length of distance while going 45mph, shifting lanes without using their signals and other crazy shenanigans. I'm just astounded by the complete disregard f…

> they drive with about a car's length of distance while going 45mph, shifting lanes without using their signals and other crazy shenanigans this shit happens everywhere

Nah. It's definitely worse in some places than others. In Michigan, people would go 80-85 mph with 1-2 car lengths between them. California is notorious for not using turn signals before lane shifts (and my experience matched that reputation). I would say both of these experiences are quantifiably different from my experience driving in Washington (though I do not have such numbers).

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#206

Post by loeg »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #123
jbarberu wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've also lived in Spain for a short time, which isn't exactly known for their great drivers. Central Florida is worse by miles. People stare at their phones while moving (at a light is bad enough, but at least you won't hit anyone), they drive with about a car's length of distance while going 45mph, shifting lanes without using their signals and other crazy shenanigans. I'm just astounded by the complete disregard f…

There's two kinds of "bad" drivers. There's "the insurance company does not like it when you drive this way because you will likely cost them money" bad drivers and there's "legitimately doing a poor or ineffective job at accomplishing the task of driving". Weaving through traffic at +20 and passing on the inside in a rotary are examples of the former. Paying more attention to your phone than to driving is an example…

Huh? Insurance companies and the law have similar goals w.r.t. preventing personal injury and property damage. I'm not sure how you define a 2nd kind of bad that isn't just some subset of that.

Weaving through traffic at 20 over the speed limit and making illegal and surprising passes is an example of something insurance doesn't like, and doing a poor/ineffective job of driving.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#207

Post by loeg »

maxxxxx wrote: post #166
jbarberu wrote: post #20

Having recently moved to Florida from Sweden, I was shocked at how biker/pedestrian hostile it is here. I naively thought I'd be able to live a more active lifestyle because of the nicer weather, but instead I'm driving a car everywhere as I wouldn't feel safe on a bike. It seems to be a pretty vicious cycle of the infrastructure being hostile to biking so nobody does it, nobody is biking so the roads are optimized f…

" I naively thought I'd be able to live a more active lifestyle because of the nicer weather" The Florida lifestyle is to drive from air conditioned place to air conditioned place in your car. I am exaggerating but you should try ORegon or Washington for a more active lifestyle.

Also, California has many good places to be active if you like the FL heat but not the humidity.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#208

Post by bluntfang »

xefer wrote: post #12

I noticed they mentioned the speed reduction "Boston, for example, has reduced the city speed limit from 30 miles per hour to 25 mph." Cambridge across the river followed suit soon afterward, but having lived there for decades I can't say I've noticed one iota of difference in the speed cars travel. 25 mph is still ridiculously fast in most of the tight neighborhood streets. Really the speed limit should be reduced e…

>much stricter enforcement.

I believe enforcement of moving violations in the Boston metro is impossible. It is impossible because there is not enough room for an officer in a car to pull a vehicle over while simultaneously keep traffic moving at a reasonable speed. The police have purposely chosen to not enforce moving violations in order to prioritize traffic.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#209

Post by loeg »

justinph wrote: post #11

This article fails to mention one of the biggest factors, which is the increased prevalence of SUVs and Trucks. These oversized vehicles have higher grilles and increased mass. The higher grille means injuries that on a car would have been a leg injury where the pedestrian ends up on the hood are abdominal injuries where the pedestrian can be pushed under the vehicle. The increased mass also means longer stopping dis…

The source is a long human interest piece; it's tough to figure out what actual statistics they are citing or making claims based on. Here's what I've teased out:

> That report also noted that SUVs and trucks were involved in a third of pedestrian injuries but 40 percent of deaths.

(I.e., slightly disproportionately more likely to kill in a given collision.)

That said, the number of deaths is about 4% of the total number of traffic-pedestrian crashes that go to emergency rooms. The number does not include anyone who went to urgent care, nor people who walked away.[0]

If 100% of SUV/truck drivers could switch to car-class automobiles, we'd expect to reduce pedestrian deaths about 359 (of 5376). It's something, but (1) difficult to imagine how we get there, and (2) definitely a minority fraction of 5376. I'm not sure that supports the idea that "increased prevalence of SUVS and trucks is one of the biggest factors."

In contrast, (!)34% of pedestrians killed were drunk when they died, and (!)15% of drivers were drunk when they killed a pedestrian[ibid]. These are huge numbers! 1828 and 806 lives, respectively. We can't (and don't want) to prevent people from drinking, but maybe we can improve safety for drunk pedestrians, and figure out new ways to take drivers who have been drinking off the road.

[0]: https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/pedestrian_safety/ind...

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#210

Post by cmurf »

randcraw wrote: post #132
toomuchtodo wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Florida is rated the most dangerous state for pedestrians.

The video in the OP says it's Arizona. Or maybe more are killed there while more are simply maimed in FL. Much of the problem isn't snowbirds. It's the low rate of prosecution for vehicular manslaughter. Southern states seems especially tolerant of driver irresponsibility, perhaps because the victim is perceived as 'an outsider' -- i.e. not someone cluelessly driving a giant SUV.

>Southern states seems especially tolerant of driver irresponsibility

If you're white, perhaps. As a matter of public policy, this form of institutional racism is a way more effective way of producing a desired outcome: coming down hard on people of color while letting white people off easy. The incidence of fatal escalation of routine traffic stops is way higher with people of color.

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