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One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

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Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#201

Post by jmiserez »

wonderwonder wrote: post #107
wukerplank wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would allow them a well targeted ethnic cleansing. To give you some ideas: - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_unworthy_of_life - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_eugenics

With respect, if we hit this point, it really doesn't matter if the company wants to share the data or not, the government is taking it.

That is literally the exact reason why ever storing such data nonanonymously is a bad idea. It can and will be used.

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#203

Post by drilldrive »

jackhack wrote: post #159
jhayward wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is probably wrong to think of DNA as personal property. Its public use more closely resembles a commons which is shared by many. We don't give individuals the right to pollute air, for instance, simply because they own property that has air on it. Likewise we should develop principles for information which when combined with other information can be used to transgress against 3rd parties' enjoyment of their own pr…

>It is probably wrong to think of DNA as personal property. Are you kidding? Is there anything else more personal than THE VERY THING THAT DEFINES WHAT YOU ARE AS A PHYSICAL BEING to a level of detail that science may never fully understand it? Other than one's own thoughts, I, personally, cannot think of something more personal. Conflating this with air pollution is simply nonsensical.

This exact scenario is what I find to be a call to a fullness of individualism to be quite inappropriate. We are not just ourselves, but of our parents and grandparents, and of our children. And to forget our lineage is to forget ourselves, in part at least.

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#204

Post by shakna »

jhayward wrote: post #112
lotsofpulp wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What rights? Surely if you have rights to your DNA, then your family member has rights to their DNA. It’s just an unfortunate consequence of how DNA works.

It is probably wrong to think of DNA as personal property. Its public use more closely resembles a commons which is shared by many. We don't give individuals the right to pollute air, for instance, simply because they own property that has air on it. Likewise we should develop principles for information which when combined with other information can be used to transgress against 3rd parties' enjoyment of their own pr…

> Itis probably wrong to think of DNA as personal property.

DNA cannot be thought of any other way whilst we continue to use it for personal identification.

We don't have another mechanism for protecting something uniquely identifying from tyranny.

Perhaps we should, especially as in this case others privacy may be co-dependent on myself, as you noted.

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#205

Post by y_tho »

laylomo2 wrote: post #153

A bit hyperbolic, but not completely inconceivable: Long lost twins separated at birth, one twin murders somebody, the other twin gets his DNA tested, FBI says "we found him", guy goes to jail for crime he never committed. Oops

Replace murder with art heist: http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1887111,00... With a "happier" ending.

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#206

Post by kenjackson »

jhayward wrote: post #170
jackhack wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It is probably wrong to think of DNA as personal property. Are you kidding? Is there anything else more personal than THE VERY THING THAT DEFINES WHAT YOU ARE AS A PHYSICAL BEING to a level of detail that science may never fully understand it? Other than one's own thoughts, I, personally, cannot think of something more personal. Conflating this with air pollution is simply nonsensical.

I think you're missing an important way of looking at DNA. It is clear that most people view the details in their DNA as being specific, private information about themselves and want to have control of what can be done with it. DNA is also shared, however. A relative can currently choose to reveal private information in their DNA that also reveals information that you consider private in your DNA. This is the way in…

Given that you leave DNA all over the place, we should really ask if DNA is indeed actually private. In many regards it seems less private than your facial features as I don't routinely leave my facial features on restaurant silverware.

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#207

Post by kenjackson »

jyrkesh wrote: post #194
kilo_bravo_3 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>what they're doing to themselves and their families. This only encourages me. My DNA is on record in various places, and if any relative of mine commits a crime I want the honor of being the person who fucked them and sent them to prison. I would tout the event as an esteemed accomplishment. Everyone seems to be worried about a sci-fi movie where clones are made from cheek swabs or corporations use DNA to deny certa…

Does anyone else feel like there's a growing assumption of benevolent governments and states? It might just be my own anecdotal experience, but I'm constantly surprised at how often people overlook the entire point of the 4th and 5th Amendment because Western states have been "mostly better" (these are both relative qualifiers, I am NOT saying they're perfect) in the last 10-30 years. This entire post read as if ther…

The problem with your position is that dirty governments win not by access to information, but by controlling the processes of our government.

Police don't really need to plant evidence when they are believed over defendants to begin with. Go listen to the latest season of the Series podcast. Or the Reply All episodes about the police in NYC.

If a corrupt cop wants to take you down, they don't need any of this.

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#208

Post by peu4000 »

jchook wrote: post #197
superfamicom wrote: post #187

I would gladly donate my DNA to be tested to find criminals. I signed up to 23andMe years ago just for fun, but if that data can be used to help someone who was hurt by someone genetically related to me, I am all for it. Reading the reactions here makes me feel crazy, as if their intention is to make me feel manipulated or otherwise bad. It is really interesting to me how many people are fearful of dystopian futures…

The only folks with this skewed perspective on the issue already donated their DNA to a company and simply want to convince themselves that it was a great idea.

And then there are the people who delude themselves into thinking privacy will save them from governments.

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#209

Post by mrhappyunhappy »

wonderwonder wrote: post #4

I am torn on this, as on the one hand it does violate privacy to a very large degree and provide massive power to the government. Things I am very much against. On the other hand, essentially all this does is provide law enforcement a means to potentially quickly identify violent criminals via physical traits as opposed to the contents of their mind such as forcing someone to unlock a phone which I am very against. A…

Problem is private companies do and will have access to this data and will one day do the worst imaginable thing we don’t want them doing.

There is really no way forward with this. Even is legally limited to law enforcement, the data will get hacked, leaked, abused. It’s just a matter of time.

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#210

Post by kenjackson »

laken wrote: post #58
wonderwonder wrote: post #4

I am torn on this, as on the one hand it does violate privacy to a very large degree and provide massive power to the government. Things I am very much against. On the other hand, essentially all this does is provide law enforcement a means to potentially quickly identify violent criminals via physical traits as opposed to the contents of their mind such as forcing someone to unlock a phone which I am very against. A…

The problem with using DNA to identify someone in crime is that we leave DNA everywhere. See this case for example: https://www.wired.com/story/dna-transfer-framed-murder/

It's evidence. I can point you to tons of cases of eye witnesses providing faulty testimony (in good faith, not to mention those who lie).

Is there an oracle that will tell you who committed the crime? No. But it seems odd to be OK with some forms of evidence that are even more unreliable than this, if your issue is about reliability.

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