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Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

news.gallup.com

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Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#201

Post by rootusrootus »

akhilcacharya wrote: post #81
rootusrootus wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was going to say exactly this. Disapproving massively of the current political climate in the United States and worrying about what it says about our future is not going to make me want to run away. This is my home, I want to make it better. We just took a little misstep, that's all.

Disapproving so strongly and seeing others disapprove so strongly has made me, personally, more patriotic and appreciative for the country than I used to be.

It certainly gives me hope. Apathy is the worst, I really like to see people express an opinion, even when I may not entirely agree with it.

Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#202

Post by max76 »

muzz wrote: post #187
daenz wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe not directly, but that's the cause. Most people want to live somewhere clean, with low crime, good infrastructure, and jobs. Most cities have tax-funded programs for all of those things. If they aren't on par, then there's two culprits: a) not enough tax dollars, b) taxes aren't being used effectively. Personally, I think it's almost always the latter. You can look at the historical effectiveness of most progra…

There are other things that governments do besides tax and spend. Things like individual and civil rights and freedoms, etc.

The United States doesn't have a monopoly on liberty and civil rights. 45% of all countries are "free" using The United State's own definition of the term [0].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_House

Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#203

Post by ergothus »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #193
ergothus wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we were getting what we're getting now and paying half the taxes then everything would be fine This is the statement I disagree with. Me having a few thousand extra $ at the end of the year does not give the homeless homes, does not allow me to comparison shop for healthcare, does not tell me if the drug at the store is actually real, does not ensure the schools are safe and effective. And I can't buy those by m…

> And I can't buy those by myself for that extra cash. Why not? If you had thousands of dollars a year in extra cash, you could donate to homeless shelters, pay the higher healthcare premiums, subscribe to a service that would independently validate pharmacies, pay for good private schools or donate to scholarship funds, etc. More to the point, you wouldn't need to pay for them to the extent that they already exist.…

> Why not?

Drifting off-topic, but the short version is that "subscribe to a service that would independently validate pharmacies" (meaning everything on the shelf at the pharmacy), validating schools, etc all comes down to recreating work that the govt does and then making sure that it's more cost-effective to provide good value than it is to be deceptive about providing good value. I suppose I should get a few degrees to make sure I know how to evaluate these different areas. Hopefully I know which schools will teach me for real and not deliver empty bombastic lies. There's a reason that everywhere that does a good job at these (IMHO) have plenty of taxes.

Ultimately it's a war between where you want efficiency (private market) and reliability (govt).

All of which is mostly unrelated to the point I made above: The people under discussion are upset about results, not taxation. Even if you are 100% correct that giving them their tax money will allow them to fix the issues they are upset about, that's not the same as actually fixing them. And I, for one, pay taxes so that people with the right knowledge, authority, and economies of scale CAN fix those things. Giving me a tax refund is no different than refunding me for a product not delivered - it's better than losing the money, but I wanted the product.

Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#204

Post by jedmeyers »

wyldfire wrote: post #106
jedmeyers wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course you can apply but does a random person living in the US has enough grounds to receive an asylum in Canada?

I'm torn. On one hand I shouldn't feed the trolls, OTOH it sounds like you genuinely believe that "random people" from Central America are equivalent to the US. Many Central American countries, including El Salvador, do not have the rule of law that we have in the US. They're overrun by gangs [1]. It is a legitimate claim to asylum. "a random person in the US" does not have this same claim, so, no, they do not have e…

> OTOH it sounds like you genuinely believe that "random people" from Central America are equivalent to the US

The main topic of the discussion is people leaving the US and the parent comment offers Canada as an option - what does Central America and their 'equivalency' has to do with all this?

Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#205

Post by saosebastiao »

skh wrote: post #16

Ultimately this indicates that people aren’t satisfied with the returns on taxation. I’m all for supporting a government that supports the people. From my perspective we don’t have this and haven’t had it for some time. Other developed nations have better infrastructure, better social support system, near free higher education, free at point of contact healthcare systems. What we get in the U.S. is the most advanced…

I'm well into the ~16% mentioned in this article, and you hit exactly on the reason why. Other countries may pay 10-20% more for their governments, but they are getting 100-200% more value from it.

We pay 4-10x the price of comparable first world countries for basic infrastructure like water, roads, and transit. We already pay more per capita for Medicare than most countries spend on universal health care. 15% of my earnings immediately go into a social welfare system that will be insolvent before I'm 50 years old. And even though our military has the best technology and funding in the world, we can't win wars against AK47s, IEDs, and Toyota Hiluxes. Paying taxes in the US is like throwing cash into a dumpster fire.

The sad thing is that due to tax rules on expat earnings, I can't just vote with my feet, I have to vote with my citizenship. That may not be the end of the world (I'm already on the path to dual citizenship with an EU country), but its a bit like getting a divorce because your husband spends too much on beer: it has to get really bad before it gets to the point of divorce. And for me, it's almost there.

Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#206

Post by assblaster »

skh wrote: post #131
assblaster wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually that's not that bad for the United States since the obesity rate in the US is 4x that of Norway. If the US got its obesity rate under control, we could save a lot of money (less hypertension, less diabetes).

Do you have any studies that you can point to that support this view? It’s OK if you can’t or don’t. I’ve heard this point of view often but it doesn’t jive with my anecdotal experience.

Diabetes and hypertension both increase the risks of coronary artery disease, cerebrovascular disease, renal disease, peripheral vascular disease, blindness, heart chamber enlargement and failure, localized infections, decreased wound healing requiring increased post-op surveillance and complications, obstructive sleep apnea (obesity) and its associated problems including pulmonary hypertension and heart failure.

As you can see, obesity is a leading risk for all these problems.

We need to fix obesity.

Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#207

Post by muzz »

tristor wrote: post #168
netrap wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it is true, isn't only after the first 100K USD or so that you have to pay taxes on??

Not exactly. The FEIE limit is $100,800 USD, but you still MUST file a tax return every year, no matter what, and no matter where you reside. It is extremely expensive to file that return and you pretty much must retain an accountant who understands the tax laws of the US for non-residents and your resident country's tax laws. FEIE only covers situations in which you can prove non-residence, and only makes you whole…

If you are working in a high-tax country, like any of the European ones, aren't you paying so much tax to that country that your US tax liability is essentially zero? Due to credit for foreign income taxes paid, separate from FEIE?

I.e. if an American moved to Netherlands and made 100k of which 40k went to Dutch taxes, wouldn't they effectively pay $0 in US because the credit for 40k paid to the foreign govt would wipe out the US tax liability (which would have been about $20k depending on status, deductions, etc)

Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#208

Post by muzz »

skh wrote: post #190
tannerwj wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where could I see numbers on this?

Isn’t the CIA, NSA, National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, Coast Guard (which is not part of the Pentagon), etc. all part of national defense? You can look up the public portion of their budgets online. The VA should be counted too since it’s a cost of national defense.

Also things like interest on the amount of debt used to fight wars

Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#209

Post by muzz »

max76 wrote: post #202
muzz wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are other things that governments do besides tax and spend. Things like individual and civil rights and freedoms, etc.

The United States doesn't have a monopoly on liberty and civil rights. 45% of all countries are "free" using The United State's own definition of the term [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_House

Indeed, seeking particular rights and freedoms might be a reason to live outside the United States.

Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#210

Post by howard941 »

kortilla wrote: post #135
diob wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, our government is now setup to allow minority rule unfortunately. I can't foresee us moving forward when states beyond the coasts are insistent on moving backwards to a mythical idealized time. My main reason for wanting to leave right now is the state of healthcare. I already have one "preexisting condition" out of my hands, it's called sleep apnea. I'm in shape, it's just a matter of my anatomy. My costs are…

Do you not have health insurance? Why would a single illness cost you a million dollars?

Because of his preexisting condition. Even if insured, when all of the ACA prohibitions against preexisting condition exclusions are wiped away as the political wind is portending then the OP will be one illness away from a financial wipeout.

When I was in my 30s I had a blood test come back with what the doc said was moderately high cholesterol (185?). From that point on all of my policies excluded illnesses, diseases, treatments and medicines that were in any way connected with high cholesterol.

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