Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is where the paradigm shift is coming. Your past experiences say it must be a desktop native app, but I believe things like WASM, web workers etc will allow such things to run comfortably in the browser. I really do believe people will build for the browser more than they will for the desktop because it's a more universal platform. I can even imagine a future where, for the majority, the only native app you have…
This sounds like a nightmare.
Neither PWA nor AMP are needed to make a website load fast
201–210 of 225 posts
Re: Neither PWA nor AMP are needed to make a website load fast
#202It uses a custom font. Custom fonts are absolutely unnesessary for a news page; they only delay the moment when text becomes visible. Standard Windows fonts are of a good quality and don't need a replacement (which often renders very poorly on Windows XP).
It uses a lot of scripts. Script block some browsers while parsing and executing.
It has SVG images embedded into the page. If you want the page to load faster, you should move images into external files.
AMP is directly linked to Google and cannot be used without it. Please look at the requirements for AMP HTML documents: [2]
> AMP HTML documents MUST ... contain a " rel="nofollow">https://cdn.ampproject.org/v0.js"> tag inside their head tag.
So every AMP document MUST load a Google-controlled script. And by the way, it contains 12 000 lines when beautified. It contains different Google URLs like 'https://ampcid.google.com/v1/publisher:getClientId?key=' or 'https://ampcid.google.com/v1/cache:getClientId?key=AIzaSyDKt... , references to Doubleclick and AdSense (but not other ad networks). Does every site need it?
It contains a lot of code not necessary for most websites. For example, a XHR interceptor for "some trusted AMP viewers" [3] is included into the script. Or a cryptographic library for calculating sha hashes [4].
You can use only JS components approved by Google; the spec says:
> Extended components
> The script URL must start with https://cdn.ampproject.org
So for example, Google might make a custom component for Facebook but not for QQ or Mixi. Google defines what widget can appear on an AMP page. If you are an ad network, you have to make negotiations with Google to be added (you have to negotiate with your competitor). If US government imposes sanctions on some foreign site, Google will have to comply.
It is clearly a technology made for integrating news articles into a Google page (and judging by limitations in the spec, Google might plan to make a non-vebview native renderer for AMP pages). Don't believe when they try to pretend that it can be used independently as a standard or made for accelerating the web.
[1] https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/commentisfree/2016/feb/1...
[2] https://www.ampproject.org/docs/fundamentals/spec
[3] https://github.com/ampproject/amphtml/issues/11294
[4] https://github.com/ampproject/amphtml/blob/master/src/servic...
Re: Neither PWA nor AMP are needed to make a website load fast
#203Earlier quoted context omitted.
If it benefits Google and Google alone, why do Microsoft, Pinterest, Twitter, LinkedIn, WordPress, Baidu, and Weibo (among others) also prerender AMP pages? The reality is that every link aggregator and search engine wants instant results, and your conspiracy theory falls apart as soon as you understand that. What part of AMP is invalid HTML? It is a competitor to Facebook instant articles and Apple News that works o…
> If it benefits Google and Google alone, why do Because publishers jumped on bandwagon and started deploying AMP pages en masse. Just because someone else besides Google implemented AMP pages doesn't mean that their intent and purpose is something else than what I wrote. > What part of AMP is invalid HTML? // is invalid // script attributes are invalid I once found more, I couldn't be bothered again.
Your conspiracy theory might make sense if the other search engines and link aggregators didn't actively encourage their link targets to also implement AMP or if they tried to extend AMP for their own purposes and were blocked by Google. Neither is the case.
Re: Neither PWA nor AMP are needed to make a website load fast
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
But if there's no advertising where's the money going to come from to pay those developers? Part of the third-party bloatware problem on the web is us, users who aren't willing to pay for content
The truth probably is that most websites would fail if users had to pay for them. In my opinion, that's a good thing. Ideally, anything that serves an important interest would remain (because users have a genuine interest in further use) while the useless stuff that's just tricking you into paying attention would disappear (because no one actually gives a crap about vapid celebrity gossip unless you really bait them…
> The truth probably is that most websites would fail if users had to pay for them.
I agree with you here, but the implication of this is that if the user isn't willing to pay for it, and ads aren't enough to sustain the business, maybe they should not be in that particular business.
Or, they could try to rise to the challenge and build a brand people are willing to pay for. The Guardian in the UK recently hit a million paying digital subscribers, so it's certainly not impossible. Most sites do not need a million subscribers to make payroll.
Re: Neither PWA nor AMP are needed to make a website load fast
#205Lol this guy's site took over 10 seconds to load on my mobile. Invalidates anything he had to say
Re: Neither PWA nor AMP are needed to make a website load fast
#206>I’m not saying practices promoted by AMP are bad or useless. They are good practices. But nothing stops you from following them in the regular web. Disagree. The most important feature of AMP is that it makes it impossible to add the kind of bloated crap that causes poor performance on something like a large media company website. Something like a news website likely has 2-4+ analytics integrations, and a similar nu…
When I load this AMP page [1] with an empty cache, Dev Tools show that 3.3 Mb of files are loaded [2]. Also, the page contains lots of errors [3]. This page contains ads, analytics and even a video that you have mentioned in your comment.
After loading, every 10 seconds a HTTP2 request to cloudapi.imrworldwide.com is sent even if the page is in the background.
AMP looks more like an internal Google standard for integrating websites into search results. The spec contains a lot of restrictions like these: you MUST include a 12 000-line JS script from Google ( https://cdn.ampproject.org/v0.js ) into every AMP page, you MAY use only components made by Google and even custom JS template engine made by Google. If you are an ad network then you have to make negiotiations with Google, your competitor, to be included into the whitelist. There are lot of whitelists: list of sites that can provide fonts, list of sites that can add widgets to AMP pages.
Here is one example of such conditions [4]:
> In order to qualify for inclusion, an extended component that integrates a third-party service must generally meet the notability requirements of the English Wikipedia, and is in common use in Internet publishing. As a rough rule of thumb, it should be used or requested by 5% of the top 10,000 websites as noted on builtwith.com, or already integrated into oEmbed.
If you are a small business, you are not welcome.
[1] https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/commentisfree/2016/feb/1...
[4] https://github.com/ampproject/amphtml/blob/master/3p/README....
Re: Neither PWA nor AMP are needed to make a website load fast
#207The author says you can do these things anyway without AMP, but what he doesn't get is that web developers were not doing them. It took the nudge of AMP to get decent performance on the mobile web. He also failed to mention a key AMP rule: all CSS is in the head, a max of 50 KB. There is no external CSS at all. That's crucial. It reverses a persistent anti-pattern in web development that calls for a bunch of separate…
I know nothing about AMP, but isn't having the CSS in the head pretty bad for caching? An external file can be fetched once by the browser and then cached forever, while having the CSS in the head forces that part to be downloaded over and over again? Edit: I just realize that others posted the same concerns below...
Re: Neither PWA nor AMP are needed to make a website load fast
#208The author says you can do these things anyway without AMP, but what he doesn't get is that web developers were not doing them. It took the nudge of AMP to get decent performance on the mobile web. He also failed to mention a key AMP rule: all CSS is in the head, a max of 50 KB. There is no external CSS at all. That's crucial. It reverses a persistent anti-pattern in web development that calls for a bunch of separate…
> all CSS is in the head, a max of 50 KB. There is no external CSS at all. That's crucial. It reverses a persistent anti-pattern in web development that calls for a bunch of separate files for CSS and JS. This means CSS and JS cannot be cached between page loads however so you're requesting the same data every time while navigating pages. It's a tradeoff against faster page loading. I'm surprised there isn't a better…
Re: Neither PWA nor AMP are needed to make a website load fast
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
Eh, the 'trick' is to discard javascript. You can build a functional website without it.
If you really want you can build a very fast site if you only download the part of the html that change between loads and still not break the back button. This is more work though.
Re: Neither PWA nor AMP are needed to make a website load fast
#210The author says you can do these things anyway without AMP, but what he doesn't get is that web developers were not doing them. It took the nudge of AMP to get decent performance on the mobile web. He also failed to mention a key AMP rule: all CSS is in the head, a max of 50 KB. There is no external CSS at all. That's crucial. It reverses a persistent anti-pattern in web development that calls for a bunch of separate…
We work with 1000s of publishers. Decisions about websites come from business and marketing, not from the dev team. Performance is a low priority unless it is critical.